Gary Mckinnon's account of NASA images

I always lol at anti-gravity. wth good is something like that in deep space? If you have deep space travel, do you really need AG to cruise on and off a small planet?

a reply to: FlyingFox

I am not a physicist or even remotely qualified to counter your assumptions with an adequate response. BUT I think this has been mentioned before, the 'anti-gravity' is sort of a misnomer. Its basically called electro-gravitics propulsion, which I presumed refers to manipulation of local gravity field as a means of propulsion? Either way , rather than throwing darts in the dark , I thought I would link you to another thread that has this concept discussed in depth. I hope that helps.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Based on my experience handling TS/SCI, I find this story very far-fetched and that was in an environment where everyone had a Secret clearance at a minimum. It is so tedious I couldn't even fathom the restrictions to handling info with these types of implications. Oh and I completely agree with Bedlam said, he kinda nailed that one on the head.

a reply to: Shamrock6

So he wasn't under the influence enough to hack in to NASA and DoD networks and leave messages and delete things and alter things, wasn't under the influence enough to download files and passwords, but WAS too under the influence to hit "print?"

Come on.

But he didn't hit print or manage to get any evidence for his claims. No floppy disk hidden away somewhere? He was stoned and made some sloppy mistakes because of it. He left stupid messages and deleted things by accident because he WAS high. You would actually have to be high to think doing this was a good idea while smoking pot.

All we have is his recollections of what he thinks he saw during his hacking sessions while he was admittedly high.

"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.

"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe."

"Some kind of other Mir that nobody knows about?"

"I guess so," says Gary.

"What were the ship names?"

"I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."

www.theguardian.com...

I think when we try to re-imagine or construct the situation to test for its validity or possibility, we see it as a very 'static' thing. He was known to be hacking for a long time, trying to snoop around and find vulnerabilities. It is clear from his videos , some of his own testimony is distorted with what his lawyers may have suggested. It was a process, and perhaps some success emboldened him. HIs computer along with that of his girlfriend's was taken by the police. I find it a little too 'simple' to think 'drug-addled' brains of the 'asperger -afflicted' guy who hacked US military computers and NASA, is unreliable. With the impending awful treatment in U.S prisons, he has had to play down his role, as something 'stupid'.
But I think when it comes to downloading and saving, to me it seems his progressive attempts, show it was more about himself than about being some whistle-blower. So when he gradually managed to get through, and found the list of 'non-terrestrial' officers etc . It seems like he did it for the thrill of employing his skills. His approach seems cautious, but he had it easier than he expected, and therefore exploited the opportunity. Why didnt gary mckinnon just download the pic?

""Gaining secret access was clearly seductive. McKinnon speaks of "megalomaniacal" feelings when he was deep inside systems. But he was not alone, he said. By querying who else was connected and investigating IP addresses, he found Chinese, European and other nationals visiting the same computer systems. "At first I thought they might be offsite contract workers, but that was not the case," he said.

Once he was inside a network, especially a military network, McKinnon found that other computer systems considered him a trusted user. This was how he was able to get into the Pentagon's network. "It was really by accident," he says."


And in the same interview with guardian he mentions what he is expecting ""I'm walking down the road and I find I can't control my own legs," he says. "And I'm sitting up all night thinking about jail and about being arse-#ed. An American jail. And remember, according to them I was making Washington inoperable 'immediately after September 11'. I'm having all these visions of ... " Gary puts on a redneck prisoner voice, "'What you doing attacking our country, boy? Pick up that soap.' Yeah, it is absolutely #ing terrifying. Especially because a friend of mine was on holiday in America once and was viciously attacked and ended up killing the guy who attacked him - he did 10 years in an American prison. He's quite a tough guy, and he said he had to fight tooth and nail every single day, no let up at all. And I'm thinking, 'I'm only a little nerd'."





So I think it is clear what he mentions is just the precise amount of 'truth' that can show he is guilty but not enough to validate all the charges. Which is why I wanted to see the spectrum of speculations and what angles people incline to.


He was pursuing it for 7 years!!!

"You get on to easy networks, like Support and Logistics, in order to exploit the trust relationship that military departments have between each other, and once you get on to an easy thing, you find out what networks they trust and then you hop and hop and hop, and eventually you think, 'That looks a bit more secretive.' " When I ask if he is brilliant, he says no. He's just an ordinary self-taught techie. And, he says, he was never alone.

"Once you're on the network, you can do a command called NetStat - Network Status - and it lists all the connections to that machine. There were hackers from Denmark, Italy, Germany, Turkey, Thailand ..."

"All on at once?" I ask. "You could see hackers from all over the world, snooping around, without the spaceniks or the military realising?"

"Every night," he says, "for the entire five to seven years I was doing this."

"Do you think they're still there? Are they still at it? Or have they been arrested, too?"

Gary says he doesn't know.

"What was the most exciting thing you saw?" I ask.

"I found a list of officers' names," he claims, "under the heading 'Non-Terrestrial Officers'."

"Non-Terrestrial Officers?" I say.


"You end up lusting after more and more complex security measures," he says. "It was like a game. I loved computer games. I still do. It was like a real game. It was addictive. Hugely addictive."

It was never really politically motivated.

Gary offered a somewhat hare-brained counter deal, via a Virginia public defender. "I made a sort of veiled threat to them. I said, 'You know the places I've been, so you know the stuff I've seen' kind of thing." He pauses and blushes slightly. "That didn't work."

"So you were saying, 'If you go heavy on me, I'll tell people what I found'?"

"Yeah," he says. "And I found out that my landline was being bugged, so every time I was on the phone talking to a friend about it, I made sure I'd say, 'All I want is a quiet life, but if they really want to drag me through it, I'll drag them through the #, too.' "

"And what would you have dragged them through the # about?" I ask.

"You know," says Gary, "the, uh, Non-Terrestrial Officers. The spaceships. 'The whole world thinks it's cooperating in building the International Space Station, but you've already got a space-based army that you refer to as Non-Terrestrial Officers'."

There is a silence.

"I had very little evidence," he admits. "It's not a very good bargaining chip at all, really, is it?"

Given that the justice department has announced that the information Gary downloaded was not "classified", and he was stoned much of the time, perhaps we can assume that Nasa is not too worried about his "discoveries".


---------------------------So make of it what you will. This is not a simple matter. It depends on how we orient our reasoning, with either exaggerating the Government's reach, or his own account of what he might have seen. Plus what the ongoing legal process may have altered. Too many considerations. It definitely wasnt a simple 'truth or lie' but a much more complex situation with many different facets.

a reply to: krines

I find it a little too 'simple' to think 'drug-addled' brains of the 'asperger -afflicted' guy who hacked US military computers and NASA, is unreliable.

Normal sober brains are already unreliable in this situation. The "hacking" that he did was not that sophisticated. I was a network admin during those years and also played with network tools. He basically logged onto Windows computers that didn't have their admin password set and that were exposed to the internet all while smoking ganja. I dont think I need to link any studies that show how smoking the whacky weed alters perceptions and impairs memory but anyone can tell you that you can still function. Can't remember sh#t though.

He logged on to computers while he was high. 90% of ATS users probably do that. he was looking for evidence for something that he already believed was true. What he claims he found confirmed his already established beliefs. He was high. He has nothing to back up his claims except for his recollections while he was high.

His claims have zero value.

Yeah, I totally buy this. I mean sure he has ZERO proof even though he claims he was doing this "for five to seven years" and yet cannot produce ONE image, but hey it all sounds credible to me! --rolls eyes--

originally posted by: FlyingFox
I always lol at anti-gravity. wth good is something like that in deep space? If you have deep space travel, do you really need AG to cruise on and off a small planet?

What I always thought would even better than anti-gravity is positive gravity. That is, you create some sort of gravity wave interference pattern that focuses the gravity at some point ahead of you that would essentially act as a large massive object. Then you just let your ship "fall" toward that phantom mass, while at the same time always refocusing it ahead of you. Kind of like using a fan to power a sailboat, except that the ship and the phantom mass would be separate so it should work. The ship would continuously fall toward a gravity well that would keep pushing ahead of the ship. If that wouldn't eventually accelerate you to near light speed, I don't know what would.

a reply to: jaffo

He didnt just skip hop and jump into the NASA database, it took him that long of casual 'hacking games' to find out how those security systems work and the vulnerabilities. It then became an addiction to keep trying. ummm watch the video before comment?

my take - everything Gary said was as it happened. all true.

and before anyone asks, i don't have links to my intuition.

I'm not sure about the McKinnon story, personally I think the only reason why the US went so ballistic is that an Autistic guy known to be using pot A LOT etc entered their sites with pretty basic Pearl scripts IIRC and not that much hacking knowledge.

Doesn't make the US security look too clever..So, witch hunt...

a reply to: krossis

INteresting thread, thanks. I dont know what to make of it. Reads like sci-fi.

a reply to: Mclaneinc

Thats a fair assessment, as the 'world's most powerful military' looked pretty stupid being hacked by an 'average joe'. It was an embarassment and they certainly wanted to make an example of him. But turns out it has fuelled the passion of more hackers like him. Lauri Love recently accused of similar charges and again it seems the 'mental health issues' ground is emphasised.

www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: krines
a reply to: jaffo

He didnt just skip hop and jump into the NASA database, it took him that long of casual 'hacking games' to find out how those security systems work and the vulnerabilities.

no he just hopped: " and once you get on to an easy thing, you find out what networks they trust and then you hop and hop and hop"

We are talking about windows in 2001. he was targeting windows machines that were wide open. I dont know how else to explain this.

Gary really did get @ some killer info from NASA computers in the late 90's & he says there were other hackers too. The US gov. went crazy on only Gary, so he must have found something that others did not. It was post 9-11 & the US, which was on high alert for any outside infiltrations, jumped all over Gary. The rest is UFO history. Still, all we have is what he says & America going all out to get him, & lock him up.

So everyone speculates, & yet it is all based on storytelling...some say Gary & most ATS members are high! So no one should listen to them. What about members who drink, or take pain pills? Are they disqualified? Crazy speculation..& worthless to this thread.

Attacking people is all the skeptics can do. Go after them as mentally challenged. How low.

We all know about Gary due to the USA going all out to get him arrested. Otherwise...he would not have pushed his NASA story. Gary & I both were mining NASA @ the same time. I got the daily NASA shuttle, space flight video & he went @ their computers. I was live streaming my findings by March 2000 & the early computers were not as easy to use & protect back then. Hacking was everywhere. NASA was still using Analogue video & sending out live shuttle video that was not scrambled. The NASA shuttle cameras were still using video tubes & not CCDs. (the 1st CCD was used on the STS-61 mission)

When I released my NASA UFO discoveries in my doc., "The Secret NASA Transmissions:The Smoking Gun", on March 11, 2000...JIM OBERG attacked. So did many others I talked about in the film! I was personally attacked & threatened with Lawsuits! I was personally attacked with all kinds of threats. E mails flew back & forth...many copied to Jim Oberg.

Sounds familiar... Gary & I had got to NASA! He also experienced vicious attacks, but he had a much bigger problem of course! A legal spy shocker which forced his country to step in to rescue him.

I just had to fight back with truth, I had to remind many, that I had met with them etc...Jim Oberg kept at us & David Sereda did a wonderful job picking up my story. He documents all the continuing attacks & censorship we dealt with after he joined my team, in his book.."EVIDENCE: a case for NASA UFOs".

So today all we know is we touched a BIG NASA nerve..& Jim has never let up on my NASA UFO discoveries..ever.

As my You Tube Channel grows with the hundreds of NASA UFO videos I discovered posted.. his attacks increase & today, we have a finally finished our new film called "UFOs from Outer Space," which should set off a whole new round off Skeptic attacks. I can't wait!

NASA is not being truthful. They have so much more going on in space & we can see it happening on Space videos. We hear about NASA secrets from brave people like Gary, who found strange documentation on NASA's unguarded computers. The NASA UFO footage represents unimpeachable video evidence. NASA is worried & Jim Oberg is their go to guy! He goes back to the John Glenn sightings of UFOs, which he "figured out" ...I guess. But look at his posts on this thread....attacking the source.

He does that with me too & and he also says that everything I see ....everything anyone sees...is ice! Always. That is not true of course.

Gary just wants to be left alone & live a quiet English "country life". We should let him.

a reply to: buzzEmiller

Thankyou for sharing! I do find a lot of the skepticism quite 'aggressive'. Almost making a sport of debunking, sometimes leaving the larger context out altogether. Some opinions expressed in this thread however were balanced, given what we have at hand, there is only so much we can speculate. We may never fully know what Gary did 'discover' but it was surely enough to provoke a strong reaction, his version of events are interesting. Its a controversial subject so I guess the spectrum of opinions, including extremes is to be expected.

He is fighting in a good cause, but in my opinion something is wrong about this case. Firstly, how could he get hacked into NASA computers, which should be secured at maximum level, especially alleged UFO photos. If he really hacked into NASA computers and gained secret informatiom then why he is still speaking about it? Government should keep him quiet. On the other hand, when I searched for information about him I found that every source inform about his Asperger Syndrome, which I think could be a misleading information, which force people to think he's crazy and it's symptom of his disease.

a reply to: buzzEmiller

So everyone speculates, & yet it is all based on storytelling...some say Gary & most ATS members are high!

So lets just go with what Gary said:

"I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."

That's not speculation.

So no one should listen to them. What about] members who drink, or take pain pills? Are they disqualified?

yes, when recalling information like the kind of stuff that was claimed by gary. there is actual research that shows how perception and memory are impaired while under the influence off certain substances. there are other studies that show enhancement of memory and recall while on stimulants. gary was high on pot by his own admission. unless you can find research that shows how smoking blunts helps or has no effect on recall or perception, I don't think there is much of an argument. I am fairly certain I can find plenty to support that pot impairs memory. I feel silly having to point this out actually.

Attacking people is all the skeptics can do. Go after them as mentally challenged. How low.

perhaps people "attack" you because you seem to be one of those guys that twist words and are generally just a pain in the butt. Somehow you have made my argument into that ATS members are providing "Crazy speculation..& worthless to this thread. " Because I jested about how its easy to log onto a computer. Well, you took my silly statement and generalized that to "the skeptics" argument and calling it "Attacking people" and going after them as "mentally challenged". Now THAT is low.

So again, by Gary's own admission, he was high while "hacking" these systems. When you are high, memory is impaired and perceptions are altered. That's actually the reason people smoke the stuff. The one thing that IS enhanced is "suggestibility". By default, memory is already a distortion. Being high on pot doesn't help in this case. That's not an attack or speculation but just matter of fact.

As far as the diagnosis of having Asperger's, I don't think that means anything one way or another in this case.

JIM OBERG attacked

I'm not sure what this has to do with this thread but may I suggest that what you perceive as an "attack" may just be a distortion of your perceptions. That and the fact that you mention him at least three times in one post unrelated to the topic suggests that you are baiting him to "attack". Of course, you will say that all of these "attacks" are completely unprovoked. I am certain that you call my post an "attack".

He certainly wasnt gonna shoot himself in the foot when the case was being tailored to present him as mentally ill, and not 'all-there' to prevent his extradition. There is obviously a lot more that he cannot divulge nor could he 'defend' what he saw , what with a decade long battle with the scare of spending 70+ years in a goddamned american prison. But anyway lets just disregard all that fluff.

a reply to: dawidsonhc20

Without the Asperger's emphasis and the possible suicide if forced to be extradited, he would be in a prison for the rest of his life, that too an american prison. He didnt hack NASA computers right away, but apparently he realised the vulnerabilities and pursued it little by little. He was doing it for quite some time. He was looking for blank passwords (refer to the youtube link in the first post, a bbc interview). So discrediting his intellect had to be the main facet for emphasis , otherwise he could not have escaped the impending prison-time.