Senate Dems unveil new gun control push

a reply to: Grimpachi

What civil liberty law would be violated NEO?

Full Definition of CIVIL LIBERTY : freedom from arbitrary governmental interference (as with the right of free speech) specifically by denial of governmental power and in the United States especially as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights —usually used in plural — civil libertarian noun or adjective

www.merriam-webster.com...

Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Amendment VII In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

www.legendsofamerica.com...

Take me to court, and PROVE my crime beyond ALL reasonable doubt in front of a jury of my peers.

Every single one of those constitutional PROTECTIONS is being denied to me, and every other gun owner.

TAKE US TO COURT and PROVE us unfit.

a reply to: neo96

Well lets look at this.

Full Definition of CIVIL LIBERTY : freedom from arbitrary governmental interference

ar·bi·trar·y
ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

As I said what civil liberty is being violated?

a reply to: Grimpachi

The RIGHTS To DUE PROCESS.

The RIGHT of me not having to prove my worth to the STATE for the RIGHT to own a firearm.

That is some seriously trolling there G.

And ESPECIALLY that 5th amendment RIGHT of NO person shall be held answerable to a other wise infamous crime unless...

Then it double down with being 'tried' for the same 'crime' twice.

And we can round it of with the 14th amendment RIGHT that says NO STATE shall enforce any LAWS that ABRIDGE their UNALIENABLE rights to due process, and the rest of their rights.

Back to WHAT THE HELL.

a reply to: neo96

I am trolling?

Dude you can play your BS to the lowest common denominator, but I see through it.

I will be very clear. You have not shown where any of your civil liberties would be violated.

They want to close loopholes that would stop people from obtaining firearms illegally. You still haven't explained why you want those loopholes to remain open.

You have the right to bear arms. You do not have the right to obtain them in the fashion you wish.


This type of legislation should have been done long ago. The only over reaction I see is coming from people like you and not the legislators.


BTW "Due Process" comes into effect once you have been arrested it has nothing to do with background checks.

a reply to: Grimpachi

You have the right to bear arms. You do not have the right to obtain them in the fashion you wish.

Yeah I do.

Guaranteed by the second, and 9th, and 10th amendments. As well as that 14th amendment that was about EQUAL protections.

Shall not be infringed. Same thing as DENY OR DISPARAGE.

With a big fat YOU CAN'T do that with the 14th.

Our rights DO NOT come from the state.

They NEVER have.

a reply to: neo96

Your rights have not been infringed. You can keep making the claim all you want, but that doesn't mean it's true.

But hey it has been fun(not really). It was amusing finding out that you didn't know what "arbitrary" meant and watching you claim you being denied "Due Process".

You make less and less sense every time it seems.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Your rights have not been infringed. You can keep making the claim all you want, but that doesn't mean it's true.

Yes they have numerous times.

Even the SCOTUS AGREES.

n its 1997 decision in the case, the Supreme Court ruled that the provision of the Brady Act that compelled state and local law enforcement officials to perform the background checks was unconstitutional on 10th amendment grounds.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: neo96

No they weren't NEO.

The bill was passed in 1997 and before it went into effect it had already been challenged and ruled on in the court of law.

BTW here is the rest that you left out.

However, the overall Brady statute was upheld and state and local law enforcement officials remained free to conduct background checks if they so chose. The vast majority continued to do so.[19] In 1998,

a reply to: Grimpachi

This is the part that get's left out.

civil liberty noun : the right of people to do or say things that are not illegal without being stopped or interrupted by the government

The background check IS a civil liberty violation.

But hey it's gun owners so no one really cares.

I still haven't seen where government actually wants to take anyone's guns strictly as a means of gun reform. They will never get rid of guns in America, it's too late. What's wrong with some reasonable gun reform? Better background checks, better mental health checks, required passing grade of gun safety classes with purchase, and responsible gun registration?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: neo96

I am trolling.

Dude you can play your BS to the lowest common denominator, but I see through it.

I will be very clear. You have not shown where any of your civil liberties would be violated.

They want to close loopholes that would stop people from obtaining firearms illegally. You still haven't explained why you want those loopholes to remain open.

You have the right to bear arms. You do not have the right to obtain them in the fashion you wish.


This type of legislation should have been done long ago. The only over reaction I see is coming from people like you and not the legislators.

Again what loopholes will you close to prevent criminals from the black market? Because let's say that we close everything in the legal system down that so only Barney fife types get to legally purchase guns. Those people now denied can and will go the illegal route. If you are also not adddressing the black market. You are simply moving the point of orgin from the gun stores to the street along with money. Do you want a solution or do you want to see action so you can feel better but solve nothing???? Seems like the latter with most anti extremist.

No matter what type of laws you support if you do not address the black market then you did nothing but make it worse. When numbers don't drop, we will need more laws and repeat.

Also if you truely want the homicide numbers to drop ,then despite the publicity going to mass shooters who combined kill a small amount of the homicide numbers. A lot is inner city and less desirable area's. What's that plan look like. And really if the overall gun deaths not just homicides concerns you, then your focus should be on suicide, it accounts for 60% of overall gun death. Found this 8 hour old nytimes article. Obviously arguing gun control in a round about way but they are as illogical as the pro gun control crowd.

mobile.nytimes.com...

If you guys are looking to reduce homicide numbers and total numbers then you are missing three plans to do it. Black market overflow sales, inner city homicides, and mental health outreach for suicidal people. Otherwise you are asking to accomplish nothing more than restrict legal gun purchases accomplishing nothing positive. Who with any common sense can take any of you seriously on this topic?????

Unless one of you can show me how to achieve everything above required to produce the results. Game over, the debate is pretty much over. Don't care about your feelings, show me the needed plans to achieve the results. Until then, it's chattter to say I'm superior because I'm for action. Really it is.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Some people just Luuuv the authoritarians.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Grimpachi

This is the part that get's left out.

The background check IS a civil liberty violation.

But hey it's gun owners so no one really cares.

Every post of yours so far to me has been a big fail.

civil liberty noun : the right of people to do or say things that are not illegal without being stopped or interrupted by the government

There is no government official stepping in and stopping you. They set up regulations that does not equal to being stopped or interrupted.

I don't have time to keep correcting you. Have fun with your temper tantrum.

a reply to: Grimpachi

The only fail here is someone refusing to read the Bill of RIGHTS.

That is a FACT.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

You are right I am not addressing the black market nor did I plan to.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The 14th amendment.

The EPIC FAIL of the anti gunners.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Reallyfolks

You are right I am not addressing the black market nor did I plan to.

Then it's failed, it's knee jerk. It's like saying I don't want cavities. Then cutting out sugar but not brushing your teeth. It's a moot point. Also is it all gun deaths bothering you or just homicides??

Checking to see if people can legally obtain a firearm is a lot like checking someone's ID to see if the can legally buy alcohol.

Of course some may say the later is unconstitutional.



Sorry folks I have to bail. All this gun talk reminded me that I need to go reload some shells for the range this weekend.

I honestly can't believe there is someone in this thread telling me that gun control 'isn't' a civll liberty' violation.

Because it damn well is, and everyone knows it.

Because if it wasn't they wouldn't try to be pushing it.

Even the ACLU agrees.

EXCLUSIVE: ACLU says Reid’s gun legislation could threaten privacy rights, civil liberties

Going the distance on the ACLU that wishy washy special interest thing they are.

Further defines gun 'rights' as a collective issue rather then individual.

Which the background check clearly proves the reverse.

As individuals have to prove their worth to the STATE to be allowed to practice their GOD given rights.

ACLU YOU FAIL.

www.aclu.org...