Would guns be with us even if humanity regressed back to stone age?

originally posted by: SaturnFX

ok, fair enough. I was getting the impression it was started to drift into a more general discussion of can we make guns without advanced machinery.

I am sure that we could. They would most likely more resemble the flintlock you linked as opposed to the precision firearms and munitions depicted in the Original Post.

a reply to: starwarsisreal
It could be possible until the materials ran out, plus you'd have to worry about ammunition.

Regression? Reverting to a social structure wherein the mass production and distribution of advanced weaponry is virtually impossible sounds more like progress to me.

Why is contemporary "progress" seemingly measured in terms of how fully subjugated the human spirit is to this monstrous technocracy?

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Until the bullets ran out and the weapons failed.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

I think Yes but?.

We would not regress back to the stone age but if our civilization ended then I suspect YES, the AK47 has been quoted as being producable in a tool shed, even the british empire had a problem with the savage afghan tribes whom could pick off our expensively trained and well equipped soldiers at up to a mile away using home made rifles that were crafted in there own country and india but cost only one victorian penny for them to produce, it was known as a Jezail or a Penny Jezail by the British of the time.
pashtuncultureandhistory.blogspot.co.uk...

Such a catastrophic end of modern civilization would actually likely only touch such areas with less impact than the developed world.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

as long as we have gunpowder we can make some sort of projectile based firearm maybe not as nice as they are now but similar

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: starwarsisreal

as long as we have gunpowder we can make some sort of projectile based firearm maybe not as nice as they are now but similar

Sorry, but Crossbows came first. There were the guns of primitive age. I wouldn't say we need gunpowder. We even have BB guns that use compressed air canisters to kill things.

www.greeleytribune.com...

Anything that can shoot a projectile without skill will be considered as a gun. Except Bows.

Gunpowder were more for bombs.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

This question came to me after watching about how some Pakistani villagers were able to make AK 47s out of primitive hand tools.

the paki's aint got nothing on the filipino's. they make from scrath
Faithful Replicas of Guns and Rifles Produced in Philippines

The home brewed Danao guns of the Philippines

Underground Gun Making Industry in the Philippines

now that's some serious smithin right there.

a reply to: makemap

a cross bow isn't a firearm, nor is an air rifle, read carefully before you post. I specifically said "firearm".

i feel guns would. put it this way: an event that could put us back into the stone age would have to kill anyone with any knowledge of basic chemical and manufacturing or metalurgical knowledge while leaving only clueless dummies alive. there is little survival value in being a complete ignoramus. it would also have to destroy all written texts on topical subjects. it would also have to destroy all extant copies of every technical apparatus and the guns.

basically there are millions of people who have basic knowledge about basic chemistry. 100s of thousands who know a bit about metalurgy. millions who know what a lathe is or how to bend metal. e.g people who make or buy custom made knives from artisans.

more than a thousand years ago people were making gun powder from bat poop. shortly after that primitive Rockets and Mortars and Cannon and blunderbusses or their predecessor.

in the east turks were manually turning large bore artillery. they sand cast multi ton blanks, set them up vertically, put a spade drill head on the end of a log hoisted over the blank by rope in a tower and used the log weight, water or oil cooling, and either people horse or camel power to turn the log and bore a hole in the barrel blank.

Mind you the chinese were actually the first to use firearms and cannon but the muslims made super sized cannon using techniques and mechanization we would recognize today.

i am pretty sure there are people who could almost single handedly bring a group of cavemen up to the very early 20th century because they have the basic skills and or knowledge to reproduce everything that era had just short of ic chips basically from scratch. certainly if you had a handful of thse generalists and a handful of artisans together you could.

a reply to: neo96

Well in India, saltpeter, the one of the main ingredient for gunpowder is pretty common. In fact they have been using it for medicine even before the advent of gunpowder. I'm pretty sure the Afghans and Pakistanis can just obtain them from there.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Guns are easy, gun powder is hard.

Sulfur, charcoal, and saltpeter.
It's not hard to make at all.

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: makemap

a cross bow isn't a firearm, nor is an air rifle, read carefully before you post. I specifically said "firearm".

This topic is about guns. Now your just saying all firearms uses gunpowder. What about Laser guns or Rail guns(Naval test)?

en.wikipedia.org...

"In older firearms, the propellant was typically black powder, but modern firearms use smokeless powder or other propellants. "

I'm right, you are wrong about firearms only using gunpowder. Firearms are basically guns.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
In many post apocalyptic scenarios, it features humanity losing industrial technology and going back to primitive living . However, I wonder would guns be with us for as long as we live?

This question came to me after watching about how some Pakistani villagers were able to make AK 47s out of primitive hand tools.

And here is an article that shows more information.

In his 1922 book, Story of the North West Frontier Province, author JM Ewart writes: “That gap in the low hills (south of Peshawar city) marks the Kohat Pass, which really has a better claim to being a historic highway of invasion than the Khyber itself. By it, across a neck of Afridi country, runs the Frontier Road to Kohat and Bannu, to Dera Ismail Khan and Razmak.

The villages of the pass are famed for a strange industry — the manufacture entirely by hand of rifles and ammunitions, especially rifles, to the eye so like the products of European arsenals as to deceive all but experts. For these, since they are comparatively cheap and serviceable, there is a ready sale all along the border.”

tribune.com.pk...

I could make a sten submachine gun in my garage with nothing but a hammer,sheet Metal,bolts/nails,and a bed spring if I needed to.
I could build a suppressor for it with sheet metal,freeze plugs,and some bolts.

So what does that tell you about if we go back to the Stone Age?

During the Stone Age they did not have guns...they had stone, hence the name... If we regressed back to the Stone Age we would also have only stone once again, so no, there would not be guns...

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: SaturnFX

ok, fair enough. I was getting the impression it was started to drift into a more general discussion of can we make guns without advanced machinery.

I am sure that we could. They would most likely more resemble the flintlock you linked as opposed to the precision firearms and munitions depicted in the Original Post.

Since gunpowder and firearms have both been around since before electricity, i would assume that we would have no problem manufacturing similar tools in a post apoc setting.

Plus, any metal lathe could be retrofitted to be turned by animals in a turnstyle, apply a range of gears and a flywheel, voila!! Lets make some guns.

originally posted by: VashTheStampede

So what does that tell you about if we go back to the Stone Age?

It would tell me you would have stones to work with and no bed springs...hehe

originally posted by: Woodcarver

I am sure that we could. They would most likely more resemble the flintlock you linked as opposed to the precision firearms and munitions depicted in the Original Post.

Since gunpowder and firearms have both been around since before electricity, i would assume that we would have no problem manufacturing similar tools in a post apoc setting.

Bat [email protected] I say more?

originally posted by: [post=19860488]Xtrozero





Bat [email protected] I say more?!?

Gun powder was developed in the 9th century. We have found bronze firearms as old as 1288

originally posted by: Woodcarver

Since gunpowder and firearms have both been around since before electricity, i would assume that we would have no problem manufacturing similar tools in a post apoc setting.

I already addressed this. The firearms described as being made 'by primitive tools' were not in fact made by primitive tools.