So are masons the bad guys or the good guys?

a reply to: whenandwhere

I have been involved with 'victims'. I will say no more. Im not here to argue. Do you honestly believe I know them and willing to name them on an internet forum? I know of one who is currently 'high' up in masonry and can assure you he is not a nice guy to cross. As for charity, no chance from him. Cant even get the police to investigate him, and believe me, they should.

I am not making assumptions based on this one guy. We see these things all the time here in Italy by the masons and just let me assure you, even though 80% are just normal people, the top 20% are NOT.

Take this as you will. Im saying no more.

Many are good guys. Some are bad guys. Some are boring guys.

originally posted by: whenandwhere

originally posted by: brancolinoxx
Most low level Masons are no different to the average man in the street. Its like a little club that gives them a sense of belonging.

These people will never be involved with the dark side of masonry. These people are the good guys, just like you and me. They will defend Masonry as they see no ills. What better way to hide yourselves eh? Get a crap load of 'ordinary' folk to join up to nothing more than a youth club for grown ups. They feel privileged, as would anyone being invited to a 'group'. Its a good social venture. Gets them out of the house.

The masons ARE bad though. At the higher levels, levels no ordinary guy will ever get to see. So all the masons on ATS will defend it because they honestly see nothing wrong. They will do charity work just like many other 'clubs' out there. They are not hiding anything because they have been shown nothing they need to hide.

But yes, masonry in the upper levels is absolutely corrupt to the core and always has been. This IS A FACT. Dont let the Masons opinions on ATS let you decide one way or the other, as I said, they are just part of the club, not the institution.

And yes, ATS is full of them and it definitely does influence the threads on here, Just Google it.

One more thing, investigate the masonic symbolism, that should tell you what you need to know. Ever questioned the moon landings on ATS? Try it. The masons are proud of the moon landings, whether they have been told the truth or not.

What Higher levels ?

So tell us if it is "A FACT" , who are the high level Masons , what is it that they do and how do you know so much about it ?

"Just Google it" LOL , if it's on the internet it just has to be true !!!

Im not here to tell you what to think. Google it and make up your own mind. The number of articles should surprise you if nothing else.

Believe what you will, just dont get aggressive with others. Im not trying to force my opinion on you.

a reply to: Jordan River

I've seen the local lodge and it never had an ominous glow or screams of infants being sacrificed, so I'm going to say no.

From what I know they are completely benign and the complete opposite of what the grapevine has made them out to be.

Masons do love their Egyptian Symbolism. Most I have met have some kind of medal or tattoo with egyptian symbolism or some form of esoteric knowledge.

originally posted by: brancolinoxx
a reply to: whenandwhere

I have been involved with 'victims'. I will say no more. Im not here to argue. Do you honestly believe I know them and willing to name them on an internet forum? I know of one who is currently 'high' up in masonry and can assure you he is not a nice guy to cross. As for charity, no chance from him. Cant even get the police to investigate him, and believe me, they should.

I am not making assumptions based on this one guy. We see these things all the time here in Italy by the masons and just let me assure you, even though 80% are just normal people, the top 20% are NOT.

Take this as you will. Im saying no more.

In other words , you are blowing smoke up our asses ? You allude to ONE person being a "high up" and a bad person and this makes all these make believe "Higher ups" bad guys ?

And no , I am not going to take "stories" on the interwebz as fact .

The only "higher ups" in Masonry are Master Masons who are officers in the Grand Line . I was an officer in the Grand Line and I am a pretty cool dude if I do say so myself . If you mean 33rd degree Scottish Rite Masons , then they mean jack sh!t to us in the Blue Lodge and have about as much power as the girl scout next door to me .

a reply to: Jordan River

Masons are like Catholics, they're useful idiots. The top of the pyramid is where the secrets and evil plotting takes place, but the lower levels are all about maintaining the hopelessly plastic image of brotherly love.

Well my grandpa and dad are masons and I think they're pretty good guys.

What masonry is really about isn't much of a secret. Dan Browns "The Lost Symbol" goes into a bunch of mason symbols and rituals and their influence on Washington DC.

From what I've gathered it's about enlightenment, wisdom and serving the community. I hope to find out one day!

a reply to: Jordan River

Watch some more user-generated content YouTube videos and Wiki-non-truths. Your opinions, ideas..and in fact your ability to feel the need to "call-out" anybody because you dont belong or understand it..which shows here...makes you look foolish.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

I'd say they are the good guys.

People with great character, thats the way i would put it.

The ones I've met have been great. They've been good examples of constructive, positive individuals. I have learned a lot through the leadership they've shown, and this has really helped open my mind to the importance of principles in today's society. (Old school)

Double post

a reply to: Jordan River

Depends on the person. Not only are there various levels & ranks, but each lodge can be vastly different from the others. Think of it like a franchise. A franchise may be tightly integrated with corporate headquarters or barely affiliated at all. And even though it doesn't sound to romantic, most Masons are just normal people.

As an example, most of the elders on my Mom's side of the family are Masons and/or with its sister organization. But they follow the Masonry that believes certain African bloodlines here are connected to Solomon's bloodlines. My best friend, on the other hand, has a lot of Masons in her family in a different state. And their basic teachings are vastly different. However, both sides can use their Mason connections to get special favors from other Masons.

A simpler way to think of it is like this: Is your entire workplace or club responsible if one member commits a crime? Or what if a few members work together to commit a crime or launch a political campaign? Most of the other members may not even know about what's going on, much less agree with it.

a reply to: Jordan River

They are just normal humans who want to have that kind of 'secret' brotherhood type of society feeling. If they were a secret NWO take over the world, devil worshiping thing, they would just restrict membership. Masons, like the Rosicuricians, used to have many prominent members. This was because at the time, those groups were involved in an early type of science... and many found that appealing.

George Washington was a great President and would not have been involved in anything nefarious. People know this because they can analyse his views and perspectives from his writings, many modern day conspiracy theorists fail in critical analysis, and this is troublesome.

If there is only one way you can be sure, just join the masons... they let anyone in.

On a similar note... funniest thing ever....

Jay-Z was one rapper who helped start the whole "Illuminati" hype. I find it funny that he tries to make people believe he could be a part of something like the Illuminati...

The Illuminati was a group of free-thinkers... if they existed today, the closest thing they would be a part of is a think-tank.

Members were atheist... they infiltrated various forms of an oppressive government, and tried to bring science to the masses.

Most scientists today are atheists, and many think-tank scientists only work there part-time....

Why on earth would the illuminati want to hire someone as stupid as Jay-Z?

The funny thing in all of this is that Jay-Z didn't even know about the whole 'atheist/scientist thing'. He was seen wearing a 'Do What Thou Wilt' sweater... Do What Thou Wilt is a quote from the founder of Ordo Templi Orientis... they worship a devil (not very atheist), and practice sex magic.

The group itself doesn't have many prominent members. I counted two: Jay-Z and some british rockstar.

Once he found out that the OTO was a lame ass society, he just left.

a reply to: brancolinoxx

So what degree do you consider "high level" and how do you know about this secret group of Masons but actual members do not? The reasons Masons and tons of other non Masons ( from what I've seen/read non Masons make up a much larger % of debunkers when it comes to the moon landing hoax) debunk the moon landing hoax is because the theory has a ton of holes in it, full of pseudoscience, and repeating bad info.

what you call good and bad are relative terms
are we considering only immediate effects or long term effects as well?
are we talking about whats in the best interest of humanity or what people would want for humanity in their ideal world?
are we talking about a group or the individuals that make up the group? (because behaviors of the two can be wildly different)
are we talking about historically or currently?

what to you is good?
and what to you is bad?
is it good to do bad things if the eventual outcome will be positive?
is it bad to do good things if the eventual outcome will be negative?


can one suffer so 5 dont have to?
why does everything have to be good or bad?

good things can cause bad things to happen
and bad things can cause good things to happen

im going to take a shot in the dark and say
they arent good guys or bad guys really

a reply to: Jordan River
I would say that we Freemasons are good guys, but I have my bias, obviously. Now, we do get our bad apples from time to time, but they are, by and large, the extreme minority of the Freemasonry and don't really represent what we are about.

a reply to: VP740
I think you would like this: www.travelingtemplar.com...

a reply to: intrptr
That seems like you're opinion rather than fact.

a reply to: openmind102
Let me break these things down for you:

10. They will not testify truthfully against each other -- Not true. Truth is a tenet of Freemasonry and to lie would be a great offense.

9. They have a secret handshake -- We do have modes of recognition, but how is this "scandalous"? It needs to be pointed out that not every awkward handshake given by a world leader, or famous person, means they are a Freemason.

8. They have several secret passwords -- Again, we have modes of recognition, but how exactly is this scandalous?

7. Their rituals involve a noose -- Many things are involved in our rituals, but none of them are to cause harm or induce fear, but to teach lessons which are explained to the candidate

6. They’re obsessed with the sun -- Not really accurate at all. We use the sun as a symbol in Freemasonry and we do talk about light (knowledge), and the sun would be a physical enactment of light in the material world, but I digress. We are not attempting "to control solar power for their own purposes.

"

5. Masons exclude atheists -- So? We're a private group with certain requirements. Not really scandalous.

4. They work to control politics and finance in various countries -- Not really true with this one. For the most part, 9 times out of 10 when someone is referred to as a Mason it turns out they are not, but the accuser is just trying to further denigrate the fraternity by saying x-person is corrupt and is therefor a Mason.

3. Their symbol is on the dollar bill -- There's nothing exclusively Masonic on the Great Seal of the US. The only Mason to serve on one of the four committees was Ben Franklin and his design was rejected by Congress. The gentleman who ultimately brought the design to Congress was the Secretary of the Congress and he was not a Mason (I wish he had been though).

2. Anders Breivik was a Mason -- Like I said, there are bad Masons, but he attended about 4-meetings in his entire career. Not really the poster child for what a Freemason is.

1. Masons played a key role in space exploration -- There were Masons involved with NASA, but I don't see how that is scandalous.

a reply to: brancolinoxx
Every time I see some anti-Mason spout off about "low level" and "high level" it makes laugh and cringe at the same time.

What's wrong with having a sense of belonging?

There is no "dark side of masonry." Also, if you knew anything about Freemasonry, you'd know we don't invite people to join, they must join of their own free will and accord.

I highly doubt that you know how Freemasonry operates, how the Lodges operate under a Grand Lodge, how Grand Lodges interact with and recognize each other, and how the appendant/concordant bodies operate in the hierarchy.

You keep saying "this is fact", but really it is conjecture.

What exactly are the "higher" or "upper" levels of Freemasonry?



a reply to: brancolinoxx
So you're willing to make accusations, but when it comes to providing evidence you're coming up short? Hmmm...

An Italian? That clears it up. I'm guessing you have a picture of Mussolini in your house.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
Like you would know.

As far as I can tell from what I have read etc. Masons are neither the good guys, or the bad guys. They separate themselves from such simplistic thinking. They have their own secrets that they keep. This doesn't mean they have the secrets of the world.

Sure, there are people in positions of significant power who are Masons, but this doesn't mean Masons rule the world or are on a good/bad side.

Remember, that within the Masons, your position in the outside world means nothing.

***I base these things on what I have said, please forgive if I am wrong****

a reply to: whenandwhere

Did someone call your name three times? It's good to see you around brother.