When, does life become valuable?

a reply to: marg6043

Once again, I don't wish to gestapo black boot your womanly rights,I am explaining my philosphical position and why abortion is wrong in my philosophy,in fact I am arguing free will and its merits, but instead you want to "feel" controlled ,I don't care what you kill that's your problem not do I wish to legislate it. I will call it killing and I have explained why, way over your head huh?

a reply to: marg6043

What manner of intelligence does the soul poses? Babies seem sort of shocked and distressed when they take their first breath, they don't look like they know what's going on. They don't know how to talk at first. They seem to need to learn everything. Most animals are born knowing how to walk or swim. Do animals have souls? Why are humans born with seemingly less knowleg than animals, but more capacity to learn?

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: muse7
Is that a response to me? I'm not asking for a political opinion I am asking for a philosophical dialog, thanks for your input..

Thanking you in advance FOR NOT replying to my post #7 on prior page; any political or philosophical reason as to why?

Pro-choice here.

For me the decision is about timing as much as anything else. At conception there are two cells. That is not a human being. The typical response to that is, "Those two cells have the potential to become a human being and you are denying them that potential by aborting them." Ok. But those two cells also have the potential to be naturally aborted, for any of numerous physical and/or environmental reasons. Those two cells may develop into a human being, or not. No one can predict the future. There are more than one potential outcome, which is why you can not legislate potential. You can only legislate fact.

When someone can clearly identify when those cells become a human being, that is when abortion should no longer be an option. Until then, I have to side with the right of the individual to choose for themselves. And even after that exact moment has been identified, I still may find it hard to choose sides against the woman who has to carry those cells against her will.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: marg6043

Saying life becomes valuable when the soul enters the body, then following up with I am pro choice sounds very political highly solipsistic, yea not really what I was looking for, you are wrong. Cheers

There is that small problem of well, you know; the one that you joke about when under battle stress; what soul enters that type of body (crazy) you interpret as owning as yourself commenting on a very *visually* ugly scenario.

I think it is birth... Abortion after 3 months thou is controversial. It really depends on the woman after all.


I am a man, that has had to deal with women aborting their pregnancy on both sides of the coin...

Once without my consent another time after we discussed it together and it hurt... Abortion is not a joke... Go ahead and hate me all you want, for having to make a decision.. I am used to it on ats already anyway...

Abortion is not a joke, and neither is life.. It boils down to the woman thou it is her fetus... Sometimes I have regrets, I ended up getting vasectomy in the end after having to make that hard decision... I would hope our members show some respect for me sharing.. Mods please focus ...

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: marg6043

Once again, I don't wish to gestapo black boot your womanly rights,I am explaining my philosphical position and why abortion is wrong in my philosophy,in fact I am arguing free will and its merits, but instead you want to "feel" controlled ,I don't care what you kill that's your problem not do I wish to legislate it. I will call it killing and I have explained why, way over your head huh?

Anything BUT regarding mongoloids; the manipulation of the fantastical sexual experience that includes your participation; door knobs are involved in your own words which were expressed succinctly how this is accomplished.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
...not really what I was looking for, you are wrong.

My bad, I think you may be right after all Tech...

I skimmed over the post you replied to a little too fast.

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: marg6043

What exactly is a soul and how do you know when it enters the body?

It is your first cry (intake of breath) as an infant regarding the complicity of existence or RESISTANCE to agreeing to be a human (last chance to renege). Soul is Spirit; it has choices as to where it wishes to reside.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: marg6043

What exactly is a soul and how do you know when it enters the body?

It is your first cry (intake of breath) as an infant regarding the complicity of existence or RESISTANCE to agreeing to be a human (last chance to renege). Soul is Spirit; it has choices as to where it wishes to reside.

From where do you get this information?
Knowledge = experience, how do you know?

a reply to: TechniXcality

Pro-Life here, though not the way people normally describe it. I value both the woman's life and the child's life. I believe we should focus less on abortion and contraceptives, and more on improving medical technology & the social safety net.

My goal is to get it to a point where a woman never has to choose between her unborn child's life or her own life. Plus, I agree more with the countries that give women extra financial assistance after becoming pregnant. Then, expecting mothers can focus more on being new mothers & less on their financial situations. I also believe people should use contraceptives until they decide to have children; and then, each couple should have to sign a legal contract guaranteeing they'll take care of any children they may conceive. I doubt that one will ever become law, though.

One of the lessons God taught me is "All Life is Precious". It's literally the most important tenet of my personal belief system. That's the biggest reason I'm a vegetarian, an environmentalist, and a pacifist. I try my best not to kill anything, including insects. I'm not perfect with that, but I'm working on it.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I highly doubt it's a military term either. Sounded more like a cop out to me.

But to be fair, I expect all sorts of derogatory things get said by the military.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: marg6043

Saying life becomes valuable when the soul enters the body, then following up with I am pro choice sounds very political highly solipsistic, yea not really what I was looking for, you are wrong. Cheers

Careful Margo he'll be calling you sweetheart next

Your OP says 'in this thread we are talking about abortion' and asked for people to contribute but when they do you tell them they're not talking about it like you want them to.
Then you tell them they're wrong.
Go figure.
You started this thread because you weren't getting heard in a another one. It has nothing to do with wanting appropriate criticism at all.

My view is that once a egg and sperm hook up they create a connection point in the food chain that if never givin a chance to enter the food chain other than through the mother it creates a blank space in the overall canvas of our reality. In other words we all have unseen connections that tie us all together and when there is a blank spot it creates other problems. The connection I speak of is likely our masculinity and feminity. This is turn would cause many to feel they are in the wrong body because the balance or original plan is now something different than planned.

This would then lead to such actions like using stem cells and injecting them into rats would actually give that created set of dna into the food chain. This is quite often how I find the unseen powers to be at work that something that turns many stomachs and is deemed evil is just the system trying to correct itself. So then at this point in my line of thinking the question becomes would it be best to continue the collection of unwanted children as we see today or would I want to see more strict laws cutting down on the number of these occurrences.

a reply to: marg6043
Backwards Marg; the human life experience is the Earth movie *you are starring in*, the stage. Death is just a transition moment/point in which you drop the physical body to regain the REAL lighter more fun spiritual body. Create anything instantly you want, reconnect with old deader friends.

originally posted by: namelesss
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: marg6043

VP740: What exactly is a soul and how do you know when it enters the body?

vhb: It is your first cry (intake of breath) as an infant regarding the complicity of existence or RESISTANCE to agreeing to be a human (last chance to renege). Soul is Spirit; it has choices as to where it wishes to reside.

namelesss: From where do you get this information?
Knowledge = experience, how do you know?

Tricky question as if I answer honestly I could potentially be labeled a *crazy talk* lunatic or worse; a pretender to some throne and at worse be crucified at best confined. Simply this; by having the knowledge of how the soul incarnates into the body through experience and why it does so. BTW, Pope Frances should be answering these questions (needs to apply for ATS membership) as I am certain has an app on his phone (direct connect; GOD) this guy hasn't looked at a television screen in decades (he is in for a huge paradigm shift regarding his perception of the popular culture world he abandoned 30 years ago). No dodge of question here; just wondering if you are serious.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I got the impression she meant death was just a faze.

How do you know life here is just a movie? How do you know what the real life (afterlife) is like? Do you believe animals have souls? Why do so many souls decide to inhabit bodies infected with AIDS or having other severe problems?

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I got the impression she meant death was just a faze.

How do you know life here is just a movie? How do you know what the real life (afterlife) is like? Do you believe animals have souls? Why do so many souls decide to inhabit bodies infected with AIDS or having other severe problems?

Death process is supposed to be an instant phase; not always if the body is murdered or suffered a violent unexpected death; in this case the soul becomes stuck and cannot move on. Animals have souls; they are of a group mentality (look alike act alike as far as instinctual behaviors go) yet are more individualized specifically by interaction with their owners (given names and a household in which they interact with those that husband them). Groves of Oak trees die as a collective; similar. There are levels to 'awareness' these of this consciousness form occupy the lower realms. How do I know life here is a movie, was part of the writing and production staff. The Ben-Hur sandal and sword epic did not come close. There is a line/cue of souls waiting that want to experience being a 'human'. Think of it as a carnival tour ride to a planet. Bodies are not available do to reincarnation/the correcting for a past life to move on. Those souls have first dibs. The SIDS or Aids or starving in poverty bodies are available (its going to be a short life) but for some is valid enough to take that body form on and experience being a human. This is the only planet in existence that one from the higher lighter dimensions can experience heavy 3d. It is a valuable commodity. "I WAS HUMAN" for 6 months. Many reincarnated souls chose to have a disability to correct past failures in other lives instantaneously (DOESNT WORK, failed system).

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Does each soul have a different species, or are they somewhat interchangeable? You make it sound like the other life is better, why come here? From what you're saying, it sounds like life as we know it has little or no value. If your child is sick, why give them medicine? Just get rid of their sick body and send them back to their real lighter more fun spiritual body. Can they come back whenever they want? Wouldn't that make murder a fairly trivial crime?

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Does each soul have a different species, or are they somewhat interchangeable? You make it sound like the other life is better, why come here? From what you're saying, it sounds like life as we know it has little or no value. If your child is sick, why give them medicine? Just get rid of their sick body and send them back to their real lighter more fun spiritual body. Can they come back whenever they want? Wouldn't that make murder a fairly trivial crime?

Every soul has its original place of origin (so would be of specie). The only thing interchangeable is the ability that soul has to experience occupying another living body; whether it is an insect or bird. The human machine is the pinnacle experience as why it is so prized. The other life is to our mind perfect, create a new house every month..limitless possibilities. To their mind is boring, and being limited to the 3D wherein you cannot think something into being is challenging. Human life has a much greater value to those that look at this planet as the unique Library of Earth and want to experience it (wonder if there are some payoffs to get to the front of the line). Family sickness dramas are the result of a perceived Karmic redemption quick fix (doesn't work). Murder NOW? is *instant* payback from yet again a former Karmic imbalance.