Customer Claims Religious Discrimination - Company Refuses to Print Fliers.

a reply to: Grimpachi

If it was because of the prayer, that I do not know and maybe it was then that is even worse.

Basically you are saying that Christians cannot have a person at office depot print flyers with a prayer on them?

This is getting to be too much like the "Twilight Zone", I am out for now.

a reply to: Harvin

This is getting to be too much like the "Twilight Zone"

That's the only thing you said that is right.

a reply to: Harvin

If it was because of the prayer, that I do not know and maybe it was then that is even worse.

That is what her and her lawyers claim. If it is true or not is the question.

Basically you are saying that Christians cannot have a person at office depot print flyers with a prayer on them?

I never made such a statement. You should try rereading what I have actually written.

If you don't like a businesses practices, don't go there. I'm not a fan of Office Depot taking a stance on abortion in either direction because maybe I'll need a flyer printed out without wanting to get pointlessly hassled by the thought police. So yeah, I think I'll go to Staples next time.

Morally, Office Depot should respect everyone's freedom of expression. So, they are in the wrong in this case. Legally, Office Depot's means of production are not property of the government because the United States is not a communist country. So, the OP is half right when it implies Office Depot can chose to not print, but also half wrong when the OP implies that there exists some material that should be illegal for them to print.

Any possible combination of dots in the universe should absolutely and definitely be something Office Depot has every right in the world to print, or avoid printing, in a society where we have freedom of expression. We do not live in such a society. We live in a society where you and others believe they have a right to other people's means of production, a socialist country. Private property rights come with some drawbacks, but they outweigh the benefits by orders of magnitude.

a reply to: wayforward

Let's put this in a clearer perspective:

Let's say there's a Christian greeting card store that offers to make any pesonalized card you want. But their policy is not to make cards that are anti-Christian or inflammatory or offensive.

If a Satanist was to walk in and demand that they make a card that is Satanic in nature and they deny him that. Are they wrong to do that? After all it's his right and belief.

originally posted by: dawnstar
by what I read in the article it had nothing to do about it being about abortion. it contained disturbing graphic images and well, can't remember the words they used but something similar to hate speech.
it's not discrimination of any kind if the policies are followed consistantly across the board.
I mean if a pro-choice supporter went in and wanted something equally graphic and equally hateful, well, they'd refuse them also. so, well, what can I say.
I've worked in printing companies, they refuse jobs alot, for many different reasons, none of which is discriminatory.

Thats just it, people really don't believe pro-choice supporters would be refused service. And disturbing graphic images....like showing a murder a picture of their handiwork? A drunk driver a car accident? I mean WTF.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

I think your "Clearer perspective" on this is slightly out of context, even though i see the opinion you are trying to convey. In my honest opinion the world would be much better place if companies and businesses were upfront and honest with who they don't want to serve.
For example: if i walked into a cafe that was "all welcoming" (because they had to be) but secretly hated serving white people, and would spit in my food. id rather they were upfront about there opinions so i could spend my money elsewhere.

Although Office Depot clearly states in there "Code of Ethics"

We approach all opportunities and challenges by respecting the diverse
thoughts, beliefs, backgrounds, cultures and energies of all associates,
customers and suppliers

So not only are they lying to customers, they are discriminating beliefs.

whether you agree with them or not. freedom of speech is Freedom of speech

originally posted by: wayforward
Morally, Office Depot should respect everyone's freedom of expression.

Only Office Depot has the right to say what they will morally respect. They are not the government and don't have to respect anything except for the business law in their state.

So, the OP is half right when it implies Office Depot can chose to not print, but also half wrong when the OP implies that there exists some material that should be illegal for them to print.

The OP didn't imply that in any way. Deaf Alien makes a great analogy about the Christian greeting card store.

If bakers have to bake cakes, Office Depot has to print flyers.. LGBTQ double standard much?

a reply to: CoffeeTeaMe

Here's the difference explained. www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm not religious at all nor do I want to remove a woman's right to choose but planned parenthood has got to go... We can have a morally sound way for woman to have pro choice without utilizing the one organization that's riddled in racism, sterilization, and questionable medical practices.

I can sit here and defend abortion till I turn purple but I can't with a clean conscience defend or support planned parenthood. They are the most evil organization of our past being allowed to operate and receiving our tax dollars. It's an honest outrage..



This happened to many many many people.. If I was a black man in America I would be outraged that this racist organization could still exist.

a reply to: libertytoall

The United States of America has utilized eugenics and racist policies in the past, you should stop paying taxes, and defund the Government! And, by the way, you should stop using phones, because Alexander Graham Bell also promoted eugenics. Be sure to lobby your Congressmen to defund the US military for their past racism too!

7 Beloved Famous People Who Were Wildly Pro-Eugenics

originally posted by: CoffeeTeaMe
If bakers have to bake cakes, Office Depot has to print flyers.. LGBTQ double standard much?

It's not a double standard. The baker was denying work based on sexuality. Office Depot was denying work based not on who was coming in to have it done but rather on the message.

Messengers are protected, messages are not.

a reply to: libertytoall

Sounds like that woman was sterilized by the state of North Carolina. North Carolina has got to go - kick 'em out of the U.S.!!

If you are really pro-choice, then let the woman choose where she goes to get her birth control/abortion/reproductive healthcare.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: libertytoall

The United States of America has utilized eugenics and racist policies in the past, you should stop paying taxes, and defund the Government! And, by the way, you should stop using phones, because Alexander Graham Bell also promoted eugenics. Be sure to lobby your Congressmen to defund the US military for their past racism too!

7 Beloved Famous People Who Were Wildly Pro-Eugenics

Horrible argument... You can't compare the government to a private organization. The government should have shut down planned parenthood long ago and created a new non racist organization that would act on moral grounds. Instead you want to continue to support it's evil head and rather than removing the scum from carrying out medicine, you want to empower it..

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: libertytoall

Sounds like that woman was sterilized by the state of North Carolina. North Carolina has got to go - kick 'em out of the U.S.!!

If you are really pro-choice, then let the woman choose where she goes to get her birth control/abortion/reproductive healthcare.

Another horrible argument.. She should have a choice where she is treated as long as the place she's going to isn't entrenched in immoral criminal behavior. Wouldn't you expect your doctor of all people to be morally sound?? What would happen if your doctor buried in fine print that you would be sterilized, mentioned nothing of it to you, but had you sign off on it. Would that doctor lose his license?? So why is planned parenthood still operating??? Are they immune to the board of health? Do they not have to follow the same scrutiny that all other medicine follows??? Why can't abortions be done solely in hospitals rather than some dark back room procedure without proper oversight that has lead to selling fetal body parts while being in the business of abortion.. I mean how much conflict of interest do you need?? Hospital should handle abortions, not organizations that have an ulterior motive.

a reply to: libertytoall

Yeah, PLEASE start a thread if you want to talk about Planned Parenthood. There are many already, in fact. Thanks.
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Looks like there's a little more to this story. The customer made a complaint and Office Depot's legal team explained why the fliers were being denied, and that it had nothing to do with her religion.

... an Office Depot attorney replied to the complaint from the Thomas More Society with a letter claiming that the prayer “falls within the definition of ‘graphic material’ and/or ‘hate material,'” and that the refusal to print it was appropriate, and “not based in any part on the fact that the message here is couched in terms of Ms. Goldstein’s religious beliefs.” The letter specified that the prayer’s references to “the killing of children in the womb” and “the grisly trade in baby body parts” were what crossed the “graphic material” line.

So, the customer then complained to a religious legal team and they encouraged people all over the country to swarm Office Depot and demand that they print the same flier.

Needless to say, this didn’t sit well with Fr. Pavone, who called on “supporters of Priests for Life across the country” to swarm Office Depots and demand that they print copies of the prayer.

THAT'S when the CEO came in and apologized. To prevent their businesses being overrun by wild-eyed religious zealots with prayers in hand...

And of course, the most disturbing part of all is the customer's statement.

“Thanks to the help of the Thomas More Society, I was able to stand up for my rights as a Christian, and I hope other people are empowered to stand up for their religious freedom, as well,” said Goldstein. “I am grateful that God has used this situation to unite countless people in prayer for the conversion of Planned Parenthood.”

She really needs to get a life of her own.

Wonkette Story

originally posted by: libertytoall

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: libertytoall

Sounds like that woman was sterilized by the state of North Carolina. North Carolina has got to go - kick 'em out of the U.S.!!

If you are really pro-choice, then let the woman choose where she goes to get her birth control/abortion/reproductive healthcare.

Another horrible argument.. She should have a choice where she is treated as long as the place she's going to isn't entrenched in immoral criminal behavior. Wouldn't you expect your doctor of all people to be morally sound??

Criminal behavior? Prove it. Your youtube video proved nothing about Planned Parenthood.

Morally sound? Women walk into a Planned Parenthood clinic to get free or low-cost healthcare, birth control and abortions. That is what Planned Parenthood provides. They provide a service that women want. They don't force women to walk in there. Let the women choose where they want to go. If Planned Parenthood was so evil, women wouldn't go there. Some women have been going there for years and years. Never forced.

a reply to: libertytoall

And, this is why the Office Depot clerk was right to refuse to print "hate speech". Her's and your agenda seeks to demonize women and their doctors who exercise their Constitutionally protected reproductive rights. Like her, you promote the condemnation of everyone who supports Planned Parenthood and their mission, labeling them as feeble minded, evil, immoral racist murderers.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

This is getting ridiculous, but I feel not yet ridiculous enough.

I'm tempted to get a retail or service job just so I can deny service to someone based upon race or sexual orientation, or simply because I don't like their shoes or haircut. Create a taxi service, or apply to uber and then refuse to give rides to Asians, or white...

I can claim "religious" freedom and just cause a ridiculous stink.

You forgot the part where you ask every God loving Christian to send you money for your "battle"...

The previously struggling Pizza Parlor that refused to cater a gay wedding got $850,000 via gofundme for their tantrum.