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Fire/Water Baptism, What Are They?

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posted on Sep, 11 2015 @ 10:02 PM
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Fire and Water Baptism


Matthew 3
11 I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.


We've all heard of water baptism, it is when churches and congregations gather together and begin dipping "born again" Christians into rivers and lakes. This dipping into the water symbolizes (in Christian views) the washing away of previous sins and entering into a covenant with Jesus and God which results in the reception of the Holy Spirit.

Now read my words carefully, I know a lot of Christians say they do not believe baptism is a requirement in order to be saved, which I would not disagree with, but this is why I said that is what baptism symbolizes. Whether it is required or not is not relevant to the discussion.

So now that we have that out of the way, let's get to the main point of this thread: fire and water baptism and what they could symbolize.


Acts 1
5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.


This verse is obviously referring to John's statement about Jesus baptizing with fire. With this in mind we can conclude that fire baptism is the receiving of the Holy Spirit because fire = Holy Spirit.


Matthew 3
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”


If Jesus received the dove (Holy Spirit) after being baptized by John this can only mean that water and fire baptism both occur at the same time, one is required for the other and are inextricably connected to one another. As soon as Jesus is dipped into the water by John he is lifted up and receives the Spirit of God.

Fire baptism is only mentioned twice within the whole NT, both hinting toward fire symbolizing the Spirit of God, a.k.a. the Holy Spirit. There is really no other mention of it, it is only vaguely referenced. Here is one such reference:


1 Thessalonians 5
19 Do not quench the Spirit.


What do you quench fire with? Water. This is a reference to the baptism of John (water) and the baptism of Jesus (fire).

Let's look toward nature to figure out the connection and importance of water and fire. What happens when fire (the sun) heats the oceans (water)? Precipitation, water rising into the air. Jesus rising from the water and into the air represents him (YOU) ascending mentally. Water represents the material while fire represents the immaterial. To raise your consciousness you must first be dipped into the material world (be born) and then be raised by the Spirit into the air (be born again spiritually).

Rising out of the Waters with the help of Fire

Spirituality is when one tries to rise above the material world and "walk on water" in order to be in the Spirit/fire.


Matthew 3
1 Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, 2 Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


John is said to have come from the wilderness preaching the kingdom was at hand. The kingdom of God is the material or water (wilderness), that which is literally at our hands right now, which is why John baptized with it. John is the bodily baptism, that of birth into the material world. Jesus on the other hand represents the spiritual baptism, the release from the body, a.k.a. death. When we die, we are raised into the air (Spirit) and leave the material (water). We then float around in the Spirit in the form of a cloud until we are eventually recycled through precipitation back into the ocean. Reincarnation is the key to eternal life.

Fire baptism is almost completely ignored compared to water baptism. Why is that? Because those who wrote the bible do not want us to ascend above the consumerist world and society that they have created. Christian apologetics seem to believe that the fire baptism cannot happen until Jesus' return, this is false. We can all have our fire baptism right now, all we have to do is sacrifice our ego (Jesus/bodily enticements) and rise above the material world mentally. Mind over matter, do not let the world pollute you just as James says.

How do we rise above the waters and walk on them? By not looking for answers in the material world solely but within ourselves as well. We are the mind over the matter. If you truly put that phrase into practice then you will be walking in the Spirit on top of the water. When you die you will be raised into the universal consciousness (cloud) in order to be dropped off somewhere else in due time.

What are the only natural things that can bring forth light? Fire and heat. Heat creates fire and fire creates light, we are that light. The Word (Jesus) becoming flesh is the "marriage" of the fire and water, the union of the two working together to create life. This world was created for FOR YOU and BY YOU. You are both the animating force (fire) and what that force is animating (water), allowing us to rise to new life or be "born again", both the carnal (birth) and spiritual (ascension into higher consciousness) versions may apply here.

What happens when fire and earth mix? Lava is the result. When water comes into contact with lava (earth) it eventually forms GOLD and other types of rock. Inside of our bodies is that golden nugget of truth, the thing that implies that fire and water are necessary for our very existence right now. We have all already had the water baptism, that of birth and the baptism into the body (mother's womb). When the mother's "water" breaks, a baby is born and its Spirit (fire) is fueled by the wind (John 3:8) and a new flame of light is created, another perspective or "image" of the world is born.

Jesus is who represents that image, the Son of the fire (Father) and water (Mother). We are all the image of God, we are all the light of the world, and we are all lights that shine on the world; we just need to sacrifice ourselves (Jesus) in order to rise out of the physical world spiritually and realize that simple truth, that single golden nugget within us that is aching to be found.

We are the Fire and Water Baptism in the form of the Word (energy/souls rising toward truth) made flesh. Some may rise above the waters but most will stay within the waters being pulled down by those who have hijacked the truth and who run this materialistic world we call Earth.

Spiritual light is the fire (Spirit), material light is the water (Earth), when both join the Son, or image of light that WE ARE, is created. The Word becomes flesh, a living being is made.

The bible and religion in general is hiding your true nature from you. They have made you believe salvation comes from a worldly act (the crucifixion) or something outside of yourself when it is in actuality an inner sacrifice that YOU must make, that of your ego and worldly lusts. Many have yet to receives the baptism of fire, though they can easily receive it right now if they truly wanted to. Those who are baptized by fire walk on water and receive the Holy Spirit, that of oneness with the world around them. There is no separation, all is one.

Thanks for reading.





edit on 9/11/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 11 2015 @ 10:50 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The Baptism of Fire is NOT the same as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit...in fact it is the alternative.




Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. 



posted on Sep, 11 2015 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So the baptism of the Holy Spirit is that of water then? Or are there three baptisms? John makes no mention of the Holy Spirit, only of fire.

John says his baptism is that of water, but the one who comes after him is the baptism of fire.

Acts 1 talks about Jesus saying that his disciples were baptized with water, but in a few days (after) the water baptism would come the fire baptism.

With your view John never mentioned the Holy Spirit baptism, the only way he could have made reference to it is if the fire baptism he spoke of IS the Holy Spirit baptism, which the two verses I cited allude to.
edit on 9/11/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2015 @ 11:14 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

No, John said "I baptize you in water". This is a washing baptism of repentance. You go under, the dirt floats away and you rise up leaving the dirt. Then he said that Jesus would baptize you with the Holy Spirit and Fire.

John's Baptism: water (repentance)

Jesus' Baptism:

1) Holy Spirit (rebirth of the spirit)
2) Fire (the burning of anything not of the Holy Spirit)

The Bema Seat judgement is a passing through the fire to purify the Works of the Holy Spirit and to burn away chaff of "good and evil". In principle it is the Baptism of Fire for believers.

For non-believers, the Baptism of Fire is the 2nd Advent of Christ. The non-believers have no Spiritual Works to purify. They are pure "good and evil"...chaff.
edit on 11-9-2015 by BELIEVERpriest because: typos



posted on Sep, 11 2015 @ 11:24 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I agree, the immersion of the Spirit within a new body is a way for past sins to be forgiven, that is what water baptism represents, someone being given a new start through conception.

Commit a lot of sins in one life? You must die for those sins to be forgiven. Your wool is washed white and you are given a new robe (body) and crown (mind), you are saved from your sins by being given another chance at life. God excludes no one from salvation, not even the worst criminal.

One must first be born into the water of life and then be raised from the water through death. Jesus is the image, the mind, and he is the doorway that people go in and out of to find pasture. Going in and out of the door is reincarnating and finding new pastures.

It's like the water cycle, water being evaporated by the sun (fire) then being recycled back into the ocean through rainfall. Water baptism is the rain, being joined with the ocean again, fire baptism is evaporation, being set free from the ocean. It's an eternal cycle.
edit on 9/11/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2015 @ 11:33 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

No, John said "I baptize you in water". This is a washing baptism of repentance. You go under, the dirt floats away and you rise up leaving the dirt. Then he said that Jesus would baptize you with the Holy Spirit and Fire.

John's Baptism: water (repentance)

Jesus' Baptism:

1) Holy Spirit (rebirth of the spirit)
2) Fire (the burning of anything not of the Holy Spirit)

The Bema Seat judgement is a passing through the fire to purify the Works of the Holy Spirit and to burn away chaff of "good and evil". In principle it is the Baptism of Fire for believers.

For non-believers, the Baptism of Fire is the 2nd Advent of Christ. The non-believers have no Spiritual Works to purify. They are pure "good and evil"...chaff.



This. Nailed it.



posted on Sep, 11 2015 @ 11:51 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I agree, the immersion of the Spirit within a new body is a way for past sins to be forgiven, that is what water baptism represents, someone being given a new start through conception.

Commit a lot of sins in one life? You must die for those sins to be forgiven. Your wool is washed white and you are given a new robe (body) and crown (mind), you are saved from your sins by being given another chance at life. God excludes no one from salvation, not even the worst criminal.

One must first be born into the water of life and then be raised from the water through death. Jesus is the image, the mind, and he is the doorway that people go in and out of to find pasture. Going in and out of the door is reincarnating and finding new pastures.

It's like the water cycle, water being evaporated by the sun (fire) then being recycled back into the ocean through rainfall. Water baptism is the rain, being joined with the ocean again, fire baptism is evaporation, being set free from the ocean. It's an eternal cycle.


No, Neither Jesus, John the Baptist, nor any of the NT authors ever mentioned the water cycle...maybe Bill Nye the Science Guy, but not Jesus.

You know full well that my thinking process will prompt me to reject everything I quoted from you above. Most of what you said is based on incomplete Biblical citations followed up by humanistic relative philosophy. Neither philosophy or theosophy are my game. I only read, analyze and interpret the Bible using the Bible to clarify itself as a closed unit.

To tell you the truth, I only replied on this thread to provide you with the completed quote from Mattew 3 regarding the three baptisms. What you do with that info is your burden.



posted on Sep, 11 2015 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: Awen24

When we get to heaven, lets you and I sit down for a cup of coffee, on me...or the social equivalent.




posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 12:24 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

What you're experiencing right now is the divine expression. You see the perfect light, you just don't recognize it for what it is. Why? Because you refuse to look outside of the bible and refuse to look within yourself for the truth.

The bible is a commentary on what you are, not some outside source.


Luke 17
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


Anything outside of yourself is from the world. You have been confined to a worldly book trying to find answers, the kingdom is within YOU, not a book. Yes, the bible and other holy texts can be used as guideposts, but they all point toward the same destination, what is within you.


John 16
33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.

edit on 9/12/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 12:42 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If you're up to the challenge, why don't you indulge in both perspectives:

In one hand, interpret the Bible as a 'commentary of what we are'.

In the other, interpret it as a self defining closed unit from an outside source.

Then compare the two messages? Which one rings true regardless of your emotional reactions?

I've already taken that challenge. What I am today is the progressive result.



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 12:48 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I've already done both, I used to be a Christian just like you. Have YOU considered the other option? I doubt it.



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 01:07 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yes I have. Ayahuasca.



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 04:04 AM
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In Reiki teachings spiritual energy manifests in the body in three forms. The heat, the cold and the vibration. One of the reasons some people talk about raising there vibrations is that there is a physical manifestation of the spirit energy world.


edit on 12-9-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 04:41 AM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Awen24

When we get to heaven, lets you and I sit down for a cup of coffee, on me...or the social equivalent.



Oh, there's coffee in heaven. [edit: I don't have inside information on this, I just can't imagine it would be heaven without coffee]

I was going to post a long reply based on John 3 and the Jewish background to Nicodemus' question ("how can a man be born again when he is old?"), but I figured it'd just be replied to with... well, the kind of content this thread is already filled with, so I just ran with what you posted instead.
edit on 12-9-2015 by Awen24 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 06:14 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Taking a drug is not the same thing as considering something. The bible is a commentary on what you are. The authors of the bible were experiencing the same thing you are right now, that's what they were trying to convey with their stories. Life itself, what we are all a part of. What is life? God, he is not God of the dead but of the living, you see the light of life right now. All the answers are right here in the moment of observation that you experience presently. That is the true light and image of God, anything else is an idol of the world.



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 08:26 AM
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Another parallel with the natural world is that of a tree. In order for a tree to bloom you must first insert the seed (Spirit) into the ground (body), this is the moment of conception. When water and fire work in unison the tree grows to full bloom.

With water and the sun (fire), the seed (Spirit) blossoms from the ground (body) to ascend into the sky. Our bodies are the roots that are rooted in the physical world (ground) while our minds are the tree growing toward the Spirit or fire of the sun.

Good trees bear good fruit, if you love others and do good works, your fruit will be healthy and nutritious. This is why Jesus calls himself the "vine", he is the mind that bears fruit/works. We are that mind.



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 09:13 AM
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Personal/spiritual alchemy



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
No, Ayahuasca was my turning point. Before that I shared many of the beliefs that you did.



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So a plant that is supposed to help with spiritual revelation gave you religion instead? That's kind of hard to believe. I don't know if I believe you had the same beliefs I do at some point. Carnal sacrifice is not the same as spiritual sacrifice, one comes from an outside source, the other comes from within.
edit on 9/12/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2015 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Ayahuasca taught me that I had been wasting my time with gnostic spiritism. It allowed me to step outside of myself and see my life from the eyes of 3rd party observer. I can't explain it any deeper than that without getting into a theological debate.



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