US commentators call for Australian-style gun law reform

a reply to: Perhaps

... how about comprehension??

My comprehension is just fine.

I see these type of articles all the time. No backup, no source, just a bunch of numbers.

Take out the numbers for gang violence and the drug trade and then see what they look like.

The US has 319 million people, Australia has 23 million. Obviously they are very different countries.

Blame the guns, blame the guns ... how about you take a good hard look at the culture, especially the gangs.

Solve that and the situation will change with out having to step all over peoples constitutional rights.

But this vocal minority can never achieve that. They just blame the guns because to try and fix the underlying problems is just a bit too much for them.

P

News media can be very confusing at times. When it comes to guns, "common sense" and "reform" means making something that is legal illegal. When it comes to immigration, "common sense" and "reform" means making something that is illegal legal.

Maybe we could kill two birds with one stone. Australia could send us 10 million of their illegal guns, and we can send them 10 million of our illegal immigrants. Then everything would be nice and legal in both countries.

I love common sense and reform.

originally posted by: johnwick
Common sense would say gun free zones are idiotic

Lets take it to the end absurdity you seem to wish to go.

Lets just kill anyone we meet. That saves the bother of having to wait around to see who wants to kill me. I mean, according to this thread, you need your guns to keep the borders safe. I had no idea that when some guy straps on his open carry to go buy milk from the store it was to keep the country safe.

We only have indonesia above us, that's all...

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
News media can be very confusing at times. When it comes to guns, "common sense" and "reform" means making something that is legal illegal. When it comes to immigration, "common sense" and "reform" means making something that is illegal legal.

Maybe we could kill two birds with one stone. Australia could send us 10 million of their illegal guns, and we can send them 10 million of our illegal immigrants. Then everything would be nice and legal in both countries.

I love common sense and reform.

Well, we solved our problem and destroyed all those guns by cutting them up and burning them. So perhaps .........

P

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: pheonix358

There have been close to 1000 days since the beginning of 2013. One mass shooting per day for 1000 days = 4000 killed ..... But only 1125 have been killed.

Actually there have been at least 80,000 people killed by a gun in the United States, since 2013.

But if you actually meant to say number of people murdered, then there has been at least 28,000 people murdered since 2013, within the US.

I read the article and noticed how he has skewed the quote to claim they suck at math, hence bogus article... but it appears it is he who cannot comprehend the thing he read or intentionally skewed it knowingly. Either way, sad effort to dismiss the facts.. :/

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
News media can be very confusing at times. When it comes to guns, "common sense" and "reform" means making something that is legal illegal. When it comes to immigration, "common sense" and "reform" means making something that is illegal legal.

Maybe we could kill two birds with one stone. Australia could send us 10 million of their illegal guns, and we can send them 10 million of our illegal immigrants. Then everything would be nice and legal in both countries.

I love common sense and reform.

Lol, very well stated!

Common sense dictates that we either adhere to the 2nd Amendment or we don't.

Are the words written by the founding fathers just words?

If that's the case, then no law should be obeyed, no document honored.

Was the Magna Carta just words?

Common sense dictates that Americans have a right to bear arms.
Common sense dictates that the right shall not be infringed.

In America, you have the freedom to own or not own a firearm.

But freedom is just another word to some.

originally posted by: beezzer
Common sense dictates that Americans have a right to bear arms.

But you don't actually possess this right do you?

A person whose been caught with a few cannabis plants in there backyard doesn't possess this right. A person whose being treated for a mental illness, also does not possess this right.

The right to bear arms was already eliminated a longtime ago, so why would you pretend it still exists? All that pretending the right to bear arms still exists does, is allow hardcore criminals and psychopathic mass shooters to gain easy access to these weapons.

It was once considered are constitutional right to be able to own a fully automatic machine gun. But for some odd reason that right no longer exists... lol.

You hardcore gun nuts should wake up to yourselves and realize that your 'so called' born rights are nothing more than a privilege, which the government has allowed you to have and they can take it away as easy as they gave it.

It'd be in your best interest to just accept common sense gun laws now, before that pressure cooker scenario comes along in a few years time and the government bans you from owning any guns at all.

lol, theirs a lot of extremely unstable individuals within the US atm, who have incredibly easy access to firearms. That pressure cooker scenario is obviously just around the corner now.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

I will caveat that the right has become a privilege. When the state can dictate what we can own and why, then it no longer is a right.

But that doesn't take away the fact that it is a right that is currently being abused by the state.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
The right to bear arms was already eliminated a longtime ago, so why would you pretend it still exists?

It was? News to me since I may have picked up a new rifle not too long ago.

It was once considered are constitutional right to be able to own a fully automatic machine gun. But for some odd reason that right no longer exists... lol.

You can still purchase and own them.

You hardcore gun nuts should wake up to yourselves and realize that your 'so called' born rights are nothing more than a privilege, which the government has allowed you to have and they can take it away as easy as they gave it.

Easily, huh? You are funny.

Also, the government does not grant us our rights, they are considered inalienable, which means they are inherent.

It'd be in your best interest to just accept common sense gun laws now, before that pressure cooker scenario comes along in a few years time and the government bans you from owning any guns at all.

If you say so. We already have plenty of gun laws on the books, they need to enforce those before they even think about making new ones.

The thing I always find comical about gun grabbers is that they are so clueless. Most of the common sense gun laws are already on the books. There are already background checks and waiting periods. There is no gun show loophole. It is already illegal for felons and other thugs to own guns. In most major cities you can't even buy a BB gun yet that doesn't stop the daily killings.

Part of the problem with this debate is that you have one side that absolutely refuses to use facts, statistics, and common sense. We can't have a rational discussion unless the anti-gun side is willing to accept even base line factual data and common knowledge about the operation of firearms.

First, we have to define the type of gun violence we are trying to prevent.

The vast majority of gun violence is one thug shooting another thug. The daily urban carnage that you see in major cities. Almost all of this violence is committed with 1) illegal HANDGUNS and 2) mainly a black community problem.

A very small percentage of gun violence is the mass shootings we hear about in the media. In fact, if you look at the data, they have not actually increased at all. What has increased is the speed of which incidents are reported because of our 24 hour news cycle due to the internet / mobile media. This makes people think these crimes are happening more often when in fact they aren't. We just hear about it more because what used to be a local news story can now turn into a national event with twitter, etc.

Confiscating guns will not work. There are simply too many and the vast majority of the county lives in rural areas where guns are ingrained into the culture. For the most part, there has already been gun confiscation in major cities and it has been proven to not work given the daily violence. Again, it isn't Bubba in Podunk, Arkansas killing folks with his AR-15. It Dequan in Chicago shooting a rival gang member with a stolen .38.

If appreciating and honoring the 2nd Amendment makes me a "gun nut", then does appreciating the 1st Amendment make me a "speech nut"?

If we are going to allow rights to become privileges, then freedom of speech no longer exists.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You can still purchase and own them.

Pop quiz... just pretend I'm a middle aged male, whose an American citizen and has been home invaded by the authorities multiple times for growing cannabis for personal use, I have also been treated for a mental illness.

Will the government allow me to legally obtain an AK-47? Or any other firearm for that matter?

If not why? The members of ATS seem to be under the impression that it is a born right for an American citizen.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Pop quiz... just pretend I'm a middle aged male, whose an American citizen and has been home invaded by the authorities multiple times for growing cannabis for personal use, I have also been treated for a mental illness.

Will the government allow me to legally obtain an AK-47? Or any other firearm for that matter?

If not why? The members of ATS seem to be under the impression that it is a born right for an American citizen.

The Supreme Court has made it clear that convicted felons do not posses the same rights as other citizens.

If you want to turn this into a 'should marijuana be legal' thread it would be off topic. This is just a red herring so you can rail about a different aspect of gun ownership. Frankly, it just shows you want to be douchey about the topic since you are obviously anti-firearms but feel the need to pull a 'why should you own one when felons cannot' stance to stir the pot.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

First off, the general public cannot buy an AK-47. Automatic machine guns have been illegal since the 30s.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

I feel that my response in another thread is perfect here, so I'll quote myself:

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Kryties

...(snip)...

Look for yourself--America is ranked number 111 in intentional homicides per 100,000 people. That means that there are 109 countries in this world (who report this sort of thing) that have worse intentional homicide rates than us, plus two that tie with us.

But if someone were to listen to you, it's like America is number one by a dramatic margin, and that is not the case.

You are a perfect example of an ideologue who has jumped on the bash-America-and-her-gun-owners bandwagon. Sure, our homicide rates could be lower, but they could be a helluva lot worse, too. I'm not proud to be basically smack dab in the middle of the list, but I'll tell ya, an intentional-homicide rate (per 100,000) of 4.7 sure beats the rate in Honduras of 90.4, or Venezuela of 53.7, or the U.S. Virgin Islands of 52.6, or Belize of 44.7, or El Salvador of 41.2, or Guatemala of 39.9, or... Hell, Brazil had more than 50,000 intentional homicides in 2012, according to this list. That's more than three times as many as the United States had. And I'm quite certain that all of these countries have prohibitive gun laws and laws against murder (not that anything says most of these homicides were from firearms, but the point remains the same).

So, just save your hyperbole for people who don't have knowledge about comparing intentional homicide rates between countries...(snip)

Yes, this is the type of hyperbole about which I'm speaking:

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
The American public are like a pressure cooker that has no way to release the built up pressure.... Until eventually it just goes, BANG! Then all that repressed energy will just be released in one powerful blow.

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

First off, the general public cannot buy an AK-47. Automatic machine guns have been illegal since the 30s.

Not illegal since the 1930's. They just made them unattainable though there tax stamp policy. But as is stands today, they are still legally unattainable, even though there tax stamp scam is no longer implemented.

So obviously we agree then, that the right to bear arms is currently a privilege within the United States, not a right, correct?

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

They just made them unattainable though there tax stamp policy. But as is stands today, they are still legally unattainable...

What are these?

Herp derp.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Will the government allow me to legally obtain an AK-47? Or any other firearm for that matter?

Well, there's your problem with the understanding of our constitution and our laws--it is well known that convicted felons are not allowed to own firearms (something I think should be changed to only include violent offenders, but that's a different thread altogether). Committing a crime, like growing weed in your house, is known to often come with felony charges--committing said crime is a voluntary thing to do, therefore if/when you are convicted of doing it, you have voluntarily forfeited your right to own a firearm by willingly committing a felony.

But to get to the crux of the problem of your mentality--it's not about the government "allowing" us to obtain or own an AK-47, it's about the government's inability to restrict that right unless it's for a known reason, such as committing a felony. Our government cannot strip our right to own something just because some jackass decides to shoot up people 1500 miles away from where I live.

These are the types of knee-jerk reactions that whittle away at peoples' rights until very few remain. You may not like that about America, but most of us understand that, with freedom, comes personal responsibility and some danger, but I'd rather live with the consequences of too many freedoms than with the consequences of not enough of them. I guess you don't understand that mentality, but that's okay for you to have that opinion.

a reply to: Edumakated

First off, not all AK-47s are fully automatic...go to your nearest gun store and I bet they have one on the wall.

Secondly, the general public certainly can own class-three weapons, there's just more paperwork and red tape involved.