After TV Slaying, Reporter's Dad Finds Voice on Gun Control

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Sublimecraft

One gun per citizen DNA marked so that only its registered owner can fire it

no larger in calibre than is allowed by law , rifles and shotguns are only allowed on farms etc where higher calibres are required for hunting ?

just a thought

What is the deal with rifles..its like you think they are a part of a lot of murders when blunt weapons are so many more. What do we do about blunt weapon then too?

The facts are that every year less and less are killed with guns... In 2009 there were 9200 killed by guns and in 2014 8400 and in 1993 there were close to 19,000...

a reply to: Answer

I can get a gun if I wanted.
We just don't have the culture for them.
I understand you need them but to just act nothing is wrong is like burying your head in the sand.
The fact is it is easy to kill with a gun and people who shouldn't have them get them.
The problems are vast on why gun violence is so high in the states are many so why do you think how n violence is so high in the states?.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Answer

I can't disagree that many things can be used effectively, they just aren't as efficient. I just cant remember any mass public killings like Sandy Hook..etc, with a knife..I could be wrong.

Such things aren't that common here in the US, but both China and Japan have had several major incidents involving perpetrators with knives in recent years. What it all boils down to is that they use whatever is available to them.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: MysterX

Sure but how many people is an attacker going to get through with a knife?..real easy to just pull a trigger than have to actually work at it..I dont beleive for a heartbeat that anyone with a knife is going to kill more than a few people, there is a great defence..run.
I'm not for gun confiscation but don't try and put out it's the same as a knife or club.

You don't feel more than a few people could be killed with a knife?

Have you forgotten 9/11...thousands were killed that day apparently by using just craft knives...extreme example i'll admit, but all the same...

originally posted by: vor78

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Answer

I can't disagree that many things can be used effectively, they just aren't as efficient. I just cant remember any mass public killings like Sandy Hook..etc, with a knife..I could be wrong.

Such things aren't that common here in the US, but both China and Japan have had several major incidents involving perpetrators with knives in recent years. What it all boils down to is that they use whatever is available to them.

Seriously mate, your talking complete nonsense, straight up! Both Japan & China have a homicide rate of under 1 per 100,000 people (including non gun related homicides).

Where as the US has a homicide rate of over 5 per 100,000 people and a gun homicide rate of over 3.5 per 100,000 people.

Americans just need to come to grips with the reality of the situation. They undoubtedly have a massive problem with the rate of murders occurring in there country and there lax gun laws are the sole cause of it.

Check the stats from each country out for yourself, the truth is as clear as day.

gunpolicy.org

Yeah, people can (in theory) commit murder with all types of objects. But having easy access to a gun, causes people to be far more likely to actually commit murder. The stats prove it without a doubt.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa
Someone needs to come to grips with something. Maybe facts and logic?

Americans just need to come to grips with the reality of the situation. They undoubtedly have a massive problem with the rate of murders occurring in there country and there lax gun laws are the sole cause of it.

I suppose that you are aware of the fact that there are murders every year that do not involve guns?
In 2011, there were 4,914 murders that were accomplished without the use of guns. Source: US Centers for Disease Control

You might want to rethink that idea that "lax gun laws are the sole cause of it".

Maybe we have a problem with people that think murder is a great solution to a problem?

Guns are merely a means to an end... not the basic problem.... which is a criminal mind.

Peace is lost when you lose the power to protect yourself.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

The previous poster said he couldn't remember mass casualty events involving knife attacks. I stated that while they're relatively rare in the US, China and Japan have had problems with knife attacks in recent years, and they have. But don't read more into it than is there or try to put words in my mouth. I never said that China or Japan had higher homicide rates than the US.

a reply to: butcherguy

In 2011, there were 4,914 murders that were accomplished without the use of guns.

Yeah, but in that same time there were 11,068 recorded gun related homicides and 32,351 gun related deaths. Which proves without a doubt that easy access to guns causes the majority of all murders within the United states.

Link actually provided, lol

But bad habits die hard I suppose. It's extremely difficult to get a person to recognize the fallacies they have been indoctrinated to believe from birth.

originally posted by: boymonkey74

The fact is it is easy to kill with a gun and people who shouldn't have them get them.
The problems are vast on why gun violence is so high in the states are many so why do you think how n violence is so high in the states?.

Passing more laws will not stop "people who shouldn't have them" from getting them. There are already laws in place to prevent that but they aren't working. The war on drugs is a clear example of how ineffective bans truly are.

I've addressed it in many other threads. Violence is high in the US because of wealth inequality which has led to high rates of poverty and joblessness. Poverty and joblessness leads to crime. Combine that with our severely broken legal system and the problem has spiraled out of control. The vast majority of murders in the US are committed by poor blacks with prior criminal records against other poor blacks with prior criminal records but nobody wants to talk about that issue publicly. The government would rather pretend that those issues don't exist while claiming that guns are the problem every time an insane white guy shoots a few people. There are large sections of major cities where police have basically given up trying to enforce the law and there are multiple murders every week in those areas. The simple fact that the national media has chosen to ignore the root cause of the murder rate and focus only on "high profile" shootings should clue you in.

The areas with the most poverty and least education are the highest in crime rates. It should be obvious that working toward giving people the opportunity to earn a living without resorting to crime will go a long way toward solving the problem.

A large subsection of our culture embraces and glorifies violence, lawlessness, and killing as a "way of life." Without those people, the murder rates in the US would be right in line with the rest of the civilized world. Passing more gun laws will do nothing to deter those types and will only embolden them knowing that their victims are likely unarmed.

People who commit violent crimes feel like there is no other way for them to live. We need to fix the problems that caused them to feel that way in the first place.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa
How many murders by the Thuggees were accomplished with guns?
There were 2 million people killed by them.... surely they needed guns to do that... right???

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

While no one can say for certain, I think its a reasonable assumption that some percentage of those 11,000 homicides by firearm would still occur if there were no firearm. We already know 5,000 people a year commit homicides in this country without one. We also know that over 95% of homicides generally involve one victim (See Table 12) ...in other words, the firearm probably isn't necessary in the vast majority of cases.

So it seems likely to me that the firearms aren't 'causing' anything. They're merely a commonly available method, and in the absence of that method, the vast majority of those 11,000 additional homicides will likely still occur.

a reply to: vor78

Nonsense. If we just take all guns out of the population, all those bad guys will turn their lives around and become productive members of society.

originally posted by: Answer
a reply to: vor78

Nonsense. If we just take all guns out of the population, all those bad guys will turn their lives around and become productive members of society.

Fair enough, admittedly these so called "bad guys" will always be criminals no matter what laws are passed.... But why would you advocate making it easy for them?

I mean, as it stands a gang member living in Chicago only needs to drive across the border to obtain as much firearms as he desires. Or he'll just get he's innocent looking girlfriend to purchase a gun from a private buyer, so it doesn't cause suspicion and can't possibly be traced back to him.

You can't honestly tell me there isn't a major problem when the law is gladly enabling hardcore gangsters to commit violent crimes on the streets of America.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

Fair enough, admittedly these so called "bad guys" will always be criminals no matter what laws are passed.... But why would you advocate making it easy for them?

I'm not. My entire point is that NO LAW will keep them from getting guns. We need to do two things: actually put people in prison for serious crimes and address the problems that cause them to turn to crime in the first place.

I mean, as it stands a gang member living in Chicago only needs to drive across the border to obtain as much firearms as he desires.

Actually, he can get guns from his fellow gang members instead of going through all that trouble. "Across the border" still has laws in place that prevent people with a criminal record from buying guns so I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to make.

Or he'll just get he's innocent looking girlfriend to purchase a gun from a private buyer, so it doesn't cause suspicion and can't possibly be traced back to him.

There's no law that would stop that. Even if you required background checks for private transactions, his "innocent looking girlfriend" could still buy guns if she doesn't have a criminal record. Straw purchases, which is what you're talking about, are already illegal.

You can't honestly tell me there isn't a major problem when the law is gladly enabling hardcore gangsters to commit violent crimes on the streets of America.

Most "hardcore gangsters" are felons which means they get their guns illegally and own their guns illegally. They do not care about gun laws.

In the US, it is already illegal to buy a gun if:
-You're a felon or you've been convicted of a crime involving domestic violence.
-You've been adjudicated mentally defective.
-You're buying the gun for someone who can't legally buy their own gun.

The solution to people willfully breaking the law is not to simply pass more laws. Suggesting such a thing is lunacy.

The problem with gun control in the near future ...

originally posted by: whatmakesyouright
The problem with gun control in the near future ...

Nonsense. Total nonsense.

Guns are currently made with CNC machinery that costs a tiny fraction of what the machines that can actually 3D print a metal gun cost but you don't see criminals rolling their own.

The 3D Printed gun fear mongering is completely idiotic.

Idiotic?

I wasn't fear mongering. I was merely pointing out a technology that is being improved upon, quickly.

I actually think it's pretty cool. Can't wait to print my own gun, although I might not live long enough to own a 3d printer capable of that.

Once again ... idiotic? Wow!

And no, criminals aren't making their own guns now, because there's a good supply of them. Take away guns, there's still a good supply. The hope is probably that the number dwindles down over years. Well, Americans are resourceful. When we love something, we find a way to get it. Look at all the drugs we have. Look at all the alcohol we had during prohibition.

a reply to: whatmakesyouright

I was not saying you are idiotic. I was saying that the media's portrayal of 3D Printed guns as some sort of new threat is idiotic.

I find it a little weird gun control supporters almost never advocate limiting rights in other areas (which would effect them along with gun owners) that would save tons of lives when it comes to gun deaths/violent crime in general.