Biggest Gay Lobby Group in America Urges Schools to Ban Words ‘Boy’ and ‘Girl’

a reply to: PresidentHeston

Then again, I was recently accused of being a bigot for nothing more than the simple fact that I identify myself as heterosexual. And no, I didn't say 'straight', because I am well aware of the connotation that 'straight' implies any others are somehow 'crooked' or 'wrong'. I haven't used that word in that context since I was a teenager.

I'm really starting to wonder if most people actually understand what the word 'bigot' actually means. It seems increasingly like it's being used to fit the definition of 'anyone who doesn't agree with my opinion'.

a reply to: jude11

Boys and Girls are different emotionally and physically. To identify these traits is honesty not stereo typing.

And for those like me, a feminine heterosexual male, the problem wasn't being labeled a boy, the problem was being teased for acting too feminine. Which was damaging psychologically.

We don't need to eliminate the word boy and girl, we simply need to teach children and their bigot parents that some of us are different and that different is ok.

1. A feminine boy knows he is feminine.
2. A masculine girl knows she is masculine.
3. A gay child knows they are gay.

If the rest of the world could just accept the three statements above and the children who display non typical characteristics everything would be ok.

I'm certain if we taught children about feminine males, masculine females, and homosexuality as normal sub-categories of humanity everything would be fine.

I think by avoiding gender all together we will have done nothing to solve the actual problem.

I am a feminine heterosexual male not an it.

a reply to: Isurrender73

I've been asking for 13 pages now "what's the harm in a suggestion"?

No one is doing this at gun point.

No one is trying to eliminate gender.

These are absurdist and extremist comments, even moreso in light of the actual suggestions by HRC.

All I see here are folks that are intimidated or irritated by the fact that they can't (or at least, can't without being called for bigotry) steamroll minorities at will. How many times have we seen in these threads "why do we have to adjust for only 2% or 1% etc." "Why do we have to give in?"

Why is it a matter of "giving in"? Why is it a matter of winning and losing? Does it really cost any of you to treat others fairly and equally without such ... resentment?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Isurrender73

I've been asking for 13 pages now "what's the harm in a suggestion"?

Nothing is ever wrong with a suggestion.

It's when the suggestion becomes a demand that things get tricky.

As it is only a "suggestion" then there will be no issue when someone says, "No". There does not have to be a reason given, as it was, only a suggestion.

a reply to: EKron

Hi Ekron, I appreciate your insight, and am happy to hear you made it through a difficult childhood. I read that you said separating kids into groups of girls and boys was painful for you as a child. What do you think would have made things better for you and other transgender kids ? Would you have preferred to be identified as a female sooner in life ? At what age did you KNOW for sure your soul was a female ? In my experience as a child once and now a mother, is that kids do enjoy hanging out with their own gender a lot...sure all kids can have fun playing together...it just seems to be "natural" for many kids....so I can imagine that could be very painful for a transgender kid. Like you said, times have changed and I think by the time kids become teenagers they are more opened minded these days. I would think that even more important then school would be how the kids family treats them...Yes / No ? I hope my questions aren't too personal...

a reply to: Gryphon66

I am part of the minority and I was teased. I was called many names for being a feminine male.

But I think the suggestion is stupid, that is what is wrong with the suggestion.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Isurrender73

I've been asking for 13 pages now "what's the harm in a suggestion"?

Nothing is ever wrong with a suggestion.

It's when the suggestion becomes a demand that things get tricky.

As it is only a "suggestion" then there will be no issue when someone says, "No". There does not have to be a reason given, as it was, only a suggestion.

At this point, (and this has been around for some time now), have you heard anything about this becoming a demand?

As Krazy pointed out earlier, if it were to become "a demand" it would be rejected outright, particularly in the majority of school systems that I am aware of, because it would be a transgression of several different freedoms, most particularly speech if not religion.

I still don't see the harm.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I really don't see many people here trying to 'steamroll minorities at will'. Yeah, some people here are obviously very at odds with the suggestion made by the HRC, and there are a couple who would rather everyone go back in the closet because they seem to be rather uncomfortable with the reality of people who aren't exactly like them. But even those couple aren't even really steamrolling anyone. They are just venting their frustration. Whether it is based on a well-informed or open-minded world view is certainly up for debate, but it still don't think it qualifies.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I suppose we must wait for it to become a demand before we offer our opinions in opposition.

a reply to: Gryphon66

And was that comment about 'adjusting to the 1 or 2%' and bigotry partially directed my way, perchance? Or completely, for that matter?

Just wondering because of how closely it followed the one I had just made.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Gryphon66

I am part of the minority and I was teased. I was called many names for being a feminine male.

But I think the suggestion is stupid, that is what is wrong with the suggestion.

I'm a straight female. Whether it's because of growing up with 2 brothers in an all boy neighborhood or just who I am.

I always and still do feel more comfortable with males. I hated being separated by gender. I am uncomfortable being forced to be with a group of females.

a reply to: Annee

I'm a straight female. Whether it's because of growing up with 2 brothers in an all boy neighborhood or just who I am.

I always and still do feel more comfortable with males.

RIGHT? I am a straight female who had two younger brothers. Have always enjoyed the company of males more than females. Females are difficult (for me - and apparently other females) to get along with. In my experience.

a reply to: pfishy

Yeah, I've read several posts in which many say they just don't think there is much racism, sexism, and other kinds of discrimination in "today's society." (That's a paraphrase; I'm not trying to quote you.) Yet, I see it every day. I'm 49. The world is, in many ways, much more open and accepting than it was when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s, and in others, much more closed. Yes, the racism/sexism/discrimination cards are abused at times, but not EVERY TIME. It's not all a media plot. A lot of discrimination, once upon a time, was in some ways, unintentional, traditional, expected, and or the folks perpetuating it didn't know anything different. I'm not excusing it, but not too long ago, a lot of people simply didn't understand what "gay people" were ... because they had never known any, or the ones they knew were ... extreme.

I think that's happening now with trans* issues. Everyone seems to conflate that gay people automatically understand what trans* or intersex people are going through in their lives, but actually, I had no idea that I am cis-gendered until a trans* person told me, LOL. I'm just a guy who likes guys. I had never really thought about my "gender identity" nor did I really understand all the trans/non-binary/intersex folk, and I was unintentionally discriminatory toward several. Why?

Honestly, I didn't understand it, and I didn't know any better. That doesn't excuse my actions, though.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Gryphon66

I suppose we must wait for it to become a demand before we offer our opinions in opposition.

You don't have to do anything. No one is trying to control you or anyone else.

It's not a demand. It's a suggestion. And I seriously doubt that it's going much further than that in most of the country at this time.

I think we should call them all "its" like they are now called in the womb, this way we can abort them up to the age of 13 or so, and not feel guilty.

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: Gryphon66

And was that comment about 'adjusting to the 1 or 2%' and bigotry partially directed my way, perchance? Or completely, for that matter?

Just wondering because of how closely it followed the one I had just made.

No, not directed at you at all.

I haven't heard you say one word about "all this gay stuff being shoved down my throat" or "why do we care what 2% of the population think or feel."

However, you will find that kind of comment in the thread. Regardless of the fact that this question has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation but with gender identification.

I also won't comment on the unconscious connotations of the first phase either.

No, not directed at you. You've been quite civil as far as I'm concerned.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I think we should call them all "its" like they are now called in the womb, this way we can abort them up to the age of 13 or so, and not feel guilty.

That is ridiculous.

And so, I'm guessing you are being facetious.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yes, I see where you're going with the unconscious connotation bit. But, no, I'm quite clear on my standpoint and quite comfortable with it. But ATS can be a place of easy, and even intentional, misunderstandings. So I was just making sure.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Xtrozero

I think we should call them all "its" like they are now called in the womb, this way we can abort them up to the age of 13 or so, and not feel guilty.

That is ridiculous.

And so, I'm guessing you are being facetious.

It's just a suggestion...

originally posted by: pfishy
a reply to: Gryphon66

Yes, I see where you're going with the unconscious connotation bit. But, no, I'm quite clear on my standpoint and quite comfortable with it. But ATS can be a place of easy, and even intentional, misunderstandings. So I was just making sure.

No worries. Perhaps we can all learn from your example (myself included).