Tianjin was an act of sabotage and major escalation

a reply to: mungbean

I would love to see some examples and parallels with this ?

Soft surfaces become hard in the presence of hi explosive shock waves.

A much slower example is falling from a great height and impacting water. Its like hitting cement. The example of placing a stick of dynamite under a sheet of paper to reflect part of the energy is proven. The comets that exploded when impacting Jupiters atmosphere, same with the meteors in Russia, Tunguska and the most recent one.

Craters from car bombs in the Middle East

originally posted by: yulka

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: mungbean

Anyway, if anyone with the smarts could explain to me how a chemical explosion above ground could possibly create such a deep penetrating 3 acre hole in the ground ? Because with my limited knowledge of physics it just doesn't add up.

If you place a stick of dynamite on open ground it will not make a crater. If you place a thin sheet of binder paper on top of the dynamite the paper will reflect some of the energy back, producing a crater.

They also reflect blast waves with sand bags when demolishing bridge or building column supports. It contains the blast and directs more energy at the column. Drilled holes are packed with earth or sand after charges are placed in them, in mining.

This is called Tamping.

Newton

Kinetic energy

Meteor crater

Volcanic crater

Where is the energy directed to?

Lot of factors and variables determining that. If the water table is right below ground there, the ground was probably softer, not rocky. The force of the shockwave was huge, meaning the blast was fueled by an enormous amount of hi explosive or an aerosol cloud suspended above the site that detonated with more energy than if it had on the ground.

Then theres the chemicals involved, the containment, any chemical reaction by mixing that added to the effect.

I don't know what was stored or produced there, either.

a reply to: intrptr

Ok so after some digging I have found something that may show this is indeed possible to create such a crater.

"On September 21, 2001, a huge explosion occurred in the AZF fertilizer factory in Toulouse, France, belonging to the Grande Paroisse branch of the Total group.
Three hundred tons of ammonium nitrates were stored (the maximum capacity was 2,000 tons) in the hangar #221. The whole factory was destroyed making a crater of depth 20 to 30 m (65 to 100 ft), with a diameter of 200 m (650 ft); steel girders were found 3 km away from the explosion. The explosion was heard 80 km away (50 miles). Due to the acoustics of the hills and the large sound, the explosion was reported as occurring in multiple places. Police at first believed that at least five bombs had simultaneously gone off. There is still controversy over the exact number of explosions.
The factory was close to the city: one of the most inhabited areas, Le Mirail, is just one kilometer away (0.6 miles). Several schools, one hospital and a psychiatric hospital had to be evacuated.
The disaster caused 29 deaths (28 from the factory, one lycéen — secondary school/high school pupil — from a neighbouring school), 2,500 seriously wounded and 8,000 light casualties. Two thirds of the city's windows were shattered, causing 70 eye wounds and several thousand wounds which had to be sutured. The full environmental consequences of the catastrophe are not yet completely known.
(Wikipedia)

virtualglobetrotting.com/map/2001-09-21-azf-explosion-crater/

If you look at the pics of this explosion in the link provided I am more open to the belief it may have just been an above ground chemical explosion.

Not that this rules out sabotage

a reply to: mungbean

Another factor in the size of the crater in France was the explosive itself, Amonium Nitrate Fertilizer. Considered a medium explosive, Nitrates are used specifically to make craters. These are sometimes called pushers, to move material.

In military operations, cratering roadways, runways and bridge heads to deny access to road vehicles and aircraft, for example.

The bigger the crater, the lower the detonation velocity. In the case of the China explosion it may have been a cloud of chemicals lifted by a smaller explosion that then detonated, like fuel air explosives. As far as different kind of explosions, look at the Texas City disaster and the Pepcon disaster. At Texas City, a cloud of ammonium nitrate was thrown into the air and detonated, video below shows that mushroom cloud.In the Pepcon disaster, the stored rocket fuel already contained an oxidizer, it detonated on the ground in storage.

a reply to: intrptr

Assumption to make it logical to the crater, store a #load of explosives underground, plausible, yes. Do i believe it? No, but the story with the crater must be a logical one, therefor explosives underground =)

a reply to: mungbean

could you link the story?

originally posted by: mungbean
a reply to: rockpaperhammock The defacto war that is now in full swing between China and America ( and their respective allies )
Did you see 30 percent get wiped off the chinese stock market ? ( that was an act of war ) The chinese dumping American debt and assaulting the illegitimate petrodollar ? ( that is an act of war ) have you seen the rhetoric and statements made in regards to the south china sea and the pivot to asia ? And you ask what conflict ??? Conflict comes in many forms and the all out confrontation you elude to is almost always preceded by such acts of infrastructural sabotage. The art of war would e a good book to open your eyes as to the various forms of warfare that are utilised.

so yoy say certainly not the USA ? perhaps they are trying to goad China into attacking like they did to Japan before Pearl harbor. Their economy is about to implode and the only way to maintain hegemony is a military conflict while they still have the supposed superiority. I truly do not see how you cannot see a motive for attacking this port. I have explained many reasons throughout the thread why it is surely an effective target. I cannot sit here and tell you ANYTHING for sure ! I can tell you 'I' am sure but that is merely my own personal beliefs. I think that it is basic logic as to why it was highly possible at the least. And let me say that without the dynamics of that crater, the censorship going on, the anomalies and inconsistencies, the size and charecteristics of the blast I would probably be in agreeance with you.

So yes I was implying an economic entity - not a renegade group as you put it ( the USA or maybe the world bankers who are being challenged by BRICS and the new banking system ) attacked a very crucial asset in the ongoing war we are seeing unfold. Or ... perhaps but less likely in my eyes it was self inflicted for reasons yet unknown to me. But logic denotes this was not an accident and the official explanation does not fit.

It would be the ultimate travesty to see everyone's face when it happens however, while you are all posing for the camera here and telling everyone your real feelings to the NLP gods to analyze and categorize, the real game has already been played and won.

You won't really notice though because your internet service will have been shut down of a while and I will have been long banned...

a reply to: yulka

what story Yulka ? would be more than happy too

originally posted by: yulka
a reply to: intrptr

Assumption to make it logical to the crater, store a #load of explosives underground, plausible, yes. Do i believe it? No, but the story with the crater must be a logical one, therefor explosives underground =)

They are speculating the larger blasts were caused by ammonium nitrate, initiated by acetylene.

Before the explosions, many firefighters were already at the scene trying to control a blaze, AFP reports.
There have been suggestions that water sprayed on some of the chemicals could have led to the blasts.
Calcium carbide, known to be at the site, reacts with water to create the highly explosive acetylene.
Chemical experts suggest an acetylene blast could then have detonated ammonium nitrate for a much larger blast.

BBC

Thats similar to how Texas City disaster occurred. Sodium carbide, sodium cyanide and ammonium nitrate are all used in mining. That appears to be the source of the chemicals stored there, for shipping around the globe to many foreign Chinese mining projects.

a reply to: mungbean

Depending on what the secondary explosions were and what contained them, the crater could have been caused by a shaped charge effect.

,bugger it,im on dial up. Can someone explain the video above for me?

www.naturalnews.com... osion_space-based_weapons_military_retaliation.html#

This is the article that was discussed in the youtube video I posted. The website does not have the most reputable reputation but please ignore that and focus on the information presented .

EDIT - I ma a newb and having trouble embedding the right link. Just go to Natural news and read the main headline article on the Tianin explosion
Also can someone tell me what the flags next to my profile are ? Are they good or bad ?

originally posted by: mungbean

Good post I think the reasons are many also the area was used for military supercomputers so it was a tacticle target. Our context clues tell us this may have been some sort of sabotage.

A space weapon is not likely, the explosion was filmed from multiple angles and in no video there was something coming from the sky. Sabotage is more likely (taking the supercomputer offline), but I say it was an accident.

Static electricity set it off. Once the temperature met critical mass, it Exploded...It happens

a reply to: Talliostro
'IF' it was a kinetic energy weapon... they travel at well over mach 10 ( and that is a massive underestimate - i mean WELL over )

If the pentagon could not catch a giant airliner flying into the building with all those security camera's then what makes you think this would have been captured ??? Considering it was night time and there were already some large fires and small explosions going on ( possibly as a diversionary cover )
To say it did not happen because it was not discernable on the distant amateur footage available is a little dismissive

I don't buy the sabotage argument for a couple of reasons.

Primarily, the reaction of the Chinese Government. Management already detained and Government officials going absolutely bat # crazy with local officials for not giving out information and smudging the issue point very tellingly to corruption and / or gross negligence.

Secondly (and actually just as important), why target Tianjin for sabotage? If sabotage was your game, there were far better targets available. Whilst this seems huge to us over here, there are far bigger chemical storage facilities within China and in areas with more people.

Conspiracies certainly exist in various human spheres but never overlook good old human incompetence. I see they have now publicly admitted that there were over 700 tonnes of Sodium Cyanide stored at the facility - that was licensed to store around 20 Tonnes. Greed, corruption, human error - and some heads to roll following an investigation.

Greenpeace have also been being testing ground water in the wider city area of Tianjin at various test sites and found no excess levels of Cyanide (beyond normal background readings). All the raised levels found so far have been within the cordoned off area.

originally posted by: Flavian
I don't buy the sabotage argument for a couple of reasons.

Primarily, the reaction of the Chinese Government. Management already detained and Government officials going absolutely bat # crazy with local officials for not giving out information and smudging the issue point very tellingly to corruption and / or gross negligence.

Secondly (and actually just as important), why target Tianjin for sabotage? If sabotage was your game, there were far better targets available. Whilst this seems huge to us over here, there are far bigger chemical storage facilities within China and in areas with more people.

Conspiracies certainly exist in various human spheres but never overlook good old human incompetence. I see they have now publicly admitted that there were over 700 tonnes of Sodium Cyanide stored at the facility - that was licensed to store around 20 Tonnes. Greed, corruption, human error - and some heads to roll following an investigation.

Greenpeace have also been being testing ground water in the wider city area of Tianjin at various test sites and found no excess levels of Cyanide (beyond normal background readings). All the raised levels found so far have been within the cordoned off area.

You have obviously not read the thread in full, let alone the OP. then you may reallise why it was a very worthwhile target. On top of my presumption that you did not read the OP or info and facts within this thread I would summise you do not know much of history or current geopolitics or the economy ( sorry if my assumptions are unfounded )

The Chinese government has put in place unprecedented secrecy surrounding the mysterious explosion, and aggressive police state tactics are now being invoked to control the flow of information surrounding this event.


It seems the more educated people are with chemistry physics and ballistics married with a knowledge of history and the current geopolitical moves make it the more obvious it is this was attack/sabotage.

If you have even HALF a brain and spend just an hour or two investigating I am pretty sure your views will change

I wish people were as informed as they were opinionated !