A Question For Supporters of Uncontrolled Free Markets

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Isurrender73

You make it sound like all these 'billionaires' are the ones running the company and making billion dollar salaries, they are typically investors. Do you now propose to confiscate their shares in the particular companies or mutual funds they own?

Yes. I propose a wealth cap. Which would have to include a one time wealth tax of all monetary wealth over the cap.

Billionaires don't run the companies which means they actually do no work. You are correct. But if they had a wealth cap the shark CEO's would have no reason to provide more wealth to the shareholders, once the shareholders reach the maximum wage.

I believe you would see many more employees become part owners in a system like I am proposing.

Once all shareholders and CEO's were at max wage and wealth, they would be encouraged to dump more responsibilities on their employees. Paying the top employees an owners share would benefit both the CEO whose job would be more delegated and the new part owner who would have a greater motivation to maintain the companies profits.

I believe large employee ownership groups are better than concentrated power in the hands of the few. Both for the companies and society.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

But if they had a wealth cap the shark CEO's would have no reason to provide more wealth to the shareholders, once the shareholders reach the maximum wage.

Wow. Are you that out of touch? You do realize that the largest shareholders are typically institutional funds catering to retirement programs, right?

Once all shareholders and CEO's were at max wage and wealth...

I want the companies I own to continue to have good earnings reports, it helps grow my retirement account. Why would any investor place their money in a capped product?

a reply to: Edumakated

I am not envious of the wealthy.

And I did not say that a flight attendant should make as much as a pilot. It is obvious the piolets job is more stressful, more technical, and overall a more demanding specialised job.

This is an example only, I don't kbow what pilots and flight attendants make.

But a pilot making a million a year while a flight attendant makes 50k a year is not fair to the flight attendant.

Any more than the guy who sits behind a desk making 1O million a year who directs the pilot's where to fly, is fair to the pilot who is doing the more demanding job.

A wage cap between 250,000 and 500,000 would mean the flight attendant at 50,000 would make no less than 1/10th the highest paid person in the airline industry.

Pay based on ranks and merit are good. True communism is a non-motivational failure. A wage cap is simply putting a limit on someone's monetary value to humanity.

No one deserves to make 100 times more than someone else. I don't care if God himself comes down to work. He wouldn't get paid 100 times more than minimum wage in my system.

I think a minimum wage of ($10x30 hours) with a maximum income of 250,000 to 500,000 provides plenty of motivation without destroying motivation and innovation.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
I think a minimum wage of ($10x30 hours) with a maximum income of 250,000 to 500,000 provides plenty of motivation without destroying motivation and innovation.

Honestly, it is a good thing that people like yourself, with a very limited understanding of economics, are not in charge.

I would ask you to factor in cost of living by region, inflation, wage stagnation and demand economics but you obviously do not understand any of them as if you did you never would have made that ludicrous proposal.

Do you make 250,000 to 500,000 a year from your investments? I am not sure exactly where the cap should be.

And any total wealth cap that I would suggest would take into account retirement savings as being as separate part of the wealth cap. Allowing someone to have an equal amount of wealth on hand and in a retirement account.

If your not making over 500,000 per year I fail to see how you would be negatively impacted as retirement account wealth would be cumulative according to the number of investors.

You might actually be better off because the wealth from the top investors would trickle down to the smaller investors who actually are counting on retirement accounts to have a good quality of life into retirement.

I am not against venture capitalism. I am against massive income disparity.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Who the eff are you to tell me or anyone else what I need to have allocated for my retirement?

You big government statists make me nauseous.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Edumakated

The thing is, you can take any reasonably intelligent Joe, stick him in a board room with a bunch of financial advisers and he can run a company just fine. It's usually not the "leader" that's super tallented, but the people he surrounds himself with.

The same with the POTUS, a general, any leader -- they're only as good as the people giving them information and advice.

Hell any one of us could probably run a fortune 500 company if we had the right people advising us.

And this is why we are in the situation we are in. Because people think this is truth.

How do you think you get to be a CEO?
Because at one time you WERE one of the people giving the advice to a different CEO.
Thats like saying "Any one could take a football team to the Super bowl, all you have to have is great football players".

Most of the people reading this could not lead their way out of a wet paper bag. They dont have the capacity to make good decisions. The evidence is that they are in the situation that they are in right now because of the decisions that they have made.
CEO's are normal people but they carry an immense responsibility. That responsibility is for every single employee and every single investor that is involved with the company. The vast majority of the people could not manage the night shift at a KFC much less a board room.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Isurrender73
I think a minimum wage of ($10x30 hours) with a maximum income of 250,000 to 500,000 provides plenty of motivation without destroying motivation and innovation.

Honestly, it is a good thing that people like yourself, with a very limited understanding of economics, are not in charge.

I would ask you to factor in cost of living by region, inflation, wage stagnation and demand economics but you obviously do not understand any of them as if you did you never would have made that ludicrous proposal.

Honestly, it is a waste of time trying to have a discussion with these type of people. Might as well discuss particle physics with a dog. There is no logic or rational thought in the positions they held, so using logic and rational thought to try to educate them doesn't work.

This guy just said that a pilot making $1 million/yr is not fair to the flight attendant making $50k/yr. It is about "fairness". Everyone gets a trophy mindset.

a reply to: Dragoon01

The thing is, I don't WANT to be a CEO of a big company. That wouldn't make me happy.

Could I do it? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that I can do anything if I set my mind and work hard enough for it.

But your right ... common sense, and good decision making skills aren't as common as they used to be. A lot of people would be paralyzed by fear at having billions in their trust.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Edumakated

I am not envious of the wealthy.

And I did not say that a flight attendant should make as much as a pilot. It is obvious the piolets job is more stressful, more technical, and overall a more demanding specialised job.

This is an example only, I don't kbow what pilots and flight attendants make.

But a pilot making a million a year while a flight attendant makes 50k a year is not fair to the flight attendant.

Any more than the guy who sits behind a desk making 1O million a year who directs the pilot's where to fly, is fair to the pilot who is doing the more demanding job.

A wage cap between 250,000 and 500,000 would mean the flight attendant at 50,000 would make no less than 1/10th the highest paid person in the airline industry.

Pay based on ranks and merit are good. True communism is a non-motivational failure. A wage cap is simply putting a limit on someone's monetary value to humanity.

No one deserves to make 100 times more than someone else. I don't care if God himself comes down to work. He wouldn't get paid 100 times more than minimum wage in my system.

I think a minimum wage of ($10x30 hours) with a maximum income of 250,000 to 500,000 provides plenty of motivation without destroying motivation and innovation.

Your system would last all of 5 minutes.
Once people like me read the details we would load up and kill every person that thought this was a great idea.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Dragoon01

The thing is, I don't WANT to be a CEO of a big company. That wouldn't make me happy.

Could I do it? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that I can do anything if I set my mind and work hard enough for it.

But your right ... common sense, and good decision making skills aren't as common as they used to be. A lot of people would be paralyzed by fear at having billions in their trust.

Hey I dont blame you. I try to see no limits for myself either, once I put my mind to something. Thats the beauty of free markets. You are only constrained by your own limitations. The market will dictate but if you can be adaptive you will thrive.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Isurrender73
I think a minimum wage of ($10x30 hours) with a maximum income of 250,000 to 500,000 provides plenty of motivation without destroying motivation and innovation.

Honestly, it is a good thing that people like yourself, with a very limited understanding of economics, are not in charge.

I would ask you to factor in cost of living by region, inflation, wage stagnation and demand economics but you obviously do not understand any of them as if you did you never would have made that ludicrous proposal.

I am aware of all of those things. To truly benefit American's trade agreements would have to be redrawn, with tariffs and regulations that prevent money and jobs from going overseas.

Less than 2% of Americans and Less than 1% of the globe make 250,000 per year. I see no wage stagnation except for those at the very top with a cap of 250,000 to 500,000 which 99% of us will never see without a wage cap anyway. This also is fine to take into account cost of living.

If we eliminate private banking with Usury and imaginary money, we eliminate inflation.

As far as globally, I would like to see all of the US trade partners adopt the same min wage, max wage amd wage cap.

If all trade partners used the same currency and wage structure this would actually benefit supply and demand. America would likely become an exporter of quality made American products once again.

The only problem would be the need for redistribution of funds to 3rd world nations with monetary restrictions on their trade deficits. To ensure an eventual parity.

I understand much more than you credit me with. The entire system is broken, and needs rebuilt from the ground up, with humanity placed ahead of the self-serving ego.

a reply to: Dragoon01

I've done some pretty amazing things when I've focused my mind like a laser beam. When you want success as badly as you want to breathe, you'll achieve it. The thing is, a lot of people only "kinda" want success and think they really, really want it. They don't know what it's like to obsess over being successful to the point where it's all you think about -- almost to insanity.

And in a world of 7 billion people, that's almost what it takes to get ahead...near-insane fanaticism. You have to be willing to do the things others aren't.

I think Thomas Jefferson said it, "If you want something you've never had, you must be willing to do something you've never done".

^^ And I think that's the defining separation between those that rise to the level of CEO and those that don't. Some really want it, others not so much.

For example, I'm eating an insane amount of food right now and hitting the weights like a crazed cannibal. I want to be bigger, and I will be. It's not enough to just picture it in your mind -- you have to actually take action.

a reply to: Dragoon01

Killing is always good solution.

War over equality. We have been doing that for the last 4000 years. Been a truly great system of genocide. Good way to control population too.

End Sarcasm

originally posted by: Isurrender73

I am aware of all of those things. To truly benefit American's trade agreements would have to be redrawn, with tariffs and regulations that prevent money and jobs from going overseas.

No, you certainly are not, as your protectionist agenda is no longer supportable in a global economy.

Less than 2% of Americans and Less than 1% of the globe make 250,000 per year.

They also pay the bulk of the taxes.

I see no wage stagnation except for those at the very top with a cap of 250,000 to 500,000 which 99% of us will never see without a wage cap anyway. This also is fine to tske into account cost of living.

A fixed system means wage stagnation for EVERYONE.

If we eliminate private banking with Usury and imaginary money, we eliminate inflation.

Riiiiiight. Then when someone wants to borrow to buy a home they can hit you up for the cash.

As far as globally, I would like to see all of the US trade partners adopt tje same min wage, max wage amd e age cap.

If all trade partners used the same currency and wage structure this would actually benefit supply and demand. America would likely become an exporter of quality made American products once again.

The only problem would be the need for redistribution of funds to 3rd world nations with monetary restrictions on their trade deficits. To ensure an eventual parity.

Wow. Holy effing mackerel. So now I have to send my tax money to developing countries to 'balance things out'?

You know, I am not a big New World Order believer but people like you are exactly what it would be if it ever manifested.

I understand much more than you credit me with. The entire system is broken, and needs rebuilt from the ground up, with humanity placed ahead of the self-serving ego.

No, you understand very little. You are an blind ideologue and blind ideologues are so beholden to their issue that they will try to ram their policy through without any heed to the monumentally negative ramifications it will produce.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Isurrender73

Who the eff are you to tell me or anyone else what I need to have allocated for my retirement?

You big government statists make me nauseous.

Someone who cares more about humanity than my own self-centered desires.

One that wants to see the hungry eat, the homeless have a roof, and the jobless to find employment. And an environment that isn't about to die for the sake of profits.

These are the things that matter to me. Monetary wealth means nothing to me. Stuff means nothing to me. People mean everything to me, and I could care less about anything else.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Then join the Peace Corp and knock yourself out. In the meantime stay out of my pocket.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

If the NWO were to emerge with the Elitist in charge it would be far from the world you imagine. In your free market system you would be ensured to become slaves to whatever system they imagine.

If the NWO were to emerge with a humanitarian in charge, technology would be used for the people, and all your irrational fears of a wealth cap would never come to fruition.

A federal bank ran by the government can give loans just as freely as private banks. And if we give out bad loans, we would know the money was spent on failed projects that at least created temporary jobs for Americans. So in essence we would be bailing ourselves out and not private bankers who loose nothing.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I've heard that the Peac Corp is a good place to network...

a reply to: Isurrender73

Look, you and your big-government, redistributionist, fairy tale utopia are anathema to everything it means to be free.

If you want the government wiping your ass for you, great, the rest of us that are able to do for ourselves will be just fine without you.