Nepaliese boy killed in religious sacrifice

a reply to: Talorc

Maybe their beliefs weren't garbage, but still- the crux of the issue was that they just wanted some kind of common ground where they could debate theology from a single base interpretation.

Right.

Most every religion has done something similar, they want some kind of unifying starting point.

Yep! Some control over what is presented as the "starting point." I mean, after all - can't expect ordinary people to connect the dots.

I doubt it was some massive conspiracy for control,

You'd be mistaken....

though you can think what you want.

Yes, I can. Thanks!!!

And if, as you continue to delve into the history of modern Christianity, you realize that it happens to be true .... then what?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Christianity is a sick old dog, on the verge of death. It's coughing out it's last breaths in the West. Orthodoxy will probably hold out for a bit longer, but not forever.

You're looking for enemies in the wrong places. This is why I can't take these militant atheists seriously- you are just beating a sick dog that actually poses no threat to anyone.

I almost wish the church was still in control, as it'd be far preferable to what's in store for us. The people in power aren't Christians, they are something along the lines of blood-drinking demon worshippers (I say that jokingly, but then again, maybe not).

a reply to: Talorc

This is why I can't take these militant atheists seriously- you are just beating a sick dog that actually poses no threat to anyone.

Wait.

I'm not an atheist, much less "militant"..... although I freely admit that I am no fan of modern organized "Christianity."
.....
so, when you say

"you are just beating a sick dog" - who is "you" (that is, who is the person that you are addressing?)?

I wish that the evangelical new apostolic reformation seven-mountain dominionists were, in fact "no threat to anyone."

But - alas, I think they are.
I'd like very much to be "disabused" of this mindset - but no matter how much time I spend researching, it just always comes back to the Evangelical Holy-Rollers trying to get into office.

LOTS of them running in the GOP presidency race....(MOST of them, actually) ....want to do exactly that. Make this a theocracy.

Oh, you silly people, don't act like Christianity is such a singularly awful thing. It has it's beauty and its flaws like everything else. Appreciate the fact that it's faults aren't a threat to you anymore, and just enjoy the music. Such beautiful music. Is it any wonder people found the religion so appealing? The starving smallfolk looked forward to mercy and love after their squalid lives were extinguished.

What is it that you folks look forward to then? I suppose you're content enough with material indulgences, until the day that you're faced with mortality.

youtu.be...

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Talorc

This is why I can't take these militant atheists seriously- you are just beating a sick dog that actually poses no threat to anyone.

Wait.

I'm not an atheist, much less "militant"..... although I freely admit that I am no fan of modern organized "Christianity."
.....
so, when you say

"you are just beating a sick dog" - who is "you" (that is, who is the person that you are addressing?)?

I wish that the evangelical new apostolic reformation seven-mountain dominionists were, in fact "no threat to anyone."

But - alas, I think they are.
I'd like very much to be "disabused" of this mindset - but no matter how much time I spend researching, it just always comes back to the Evangelical Holy-Rollers trying to get into office.

LOTS of them running in the GOP presidency race....(MOST of them, actually) ....want to do exactly that. Make this a theocracy.

You may be right. I'm not sure, I haven't paid much mind to clowns like that. That's all they are- a bunch of clowns. They are as Christian as the sh*t that I just took.

No, I wasn't really referring to you in particular.

a reply to: Talorc

Cool. Thanks for responding.

A full transition to materialism would spell the death of us. By all means, perhaps there is no creator, and perhaps there is no purpose to our lives. But we'd be better off not knowing it.

We've now elevated humanism to the place formerly occupied by religion. The human is the highest agency, human feelings and sufferings are our greatest concern. And it opens the way to relativism, which opens the way to full-on nihilism.

Our leaders are basically hardcore nihilists in the truest sense. Nietzsche said that it would be the end of us all, and I'm inclined to believe he was right.

The caustic strength of nihilism is absolute, Nietzsche argues, and under its withering scrutiny "the highest values devalue themselves. The aim is lacking, and 'Why' finds no answer" (Will to Power). Inevitably, nihilism will expose all cherished beliefs and sacrosanct truths as symptoms of a defective Western mythos. This collapse of meaning, relevance, and purpose will be the most destructive force in history, constituting a total assault on reality and nothing less than the greatest crisis of humanity.

a reply to: Talorc

What's comical is it seems like you know all the answers to the beginning of time. Your making assumptions based upon what you've been taught. Your explanation is nothing but theoretical. There's a lot of ancient mysteries in this world in which archeologists have applied their theoretical ideas to explain the past. Over the years many theories have been found to be false.

Oh, by the way, I'm not an atheist, so I guess your presumption from my post is way off base. As far as your accusations if I think, I'm well versed in the bible having been educated in a Catholic private school and having been an alter boy for 4 years. I'm also a college graduate holding 2 degrees, and a retired CAD/Engineering teacher to boot. So If I were you, I would be careful on belittling people who you really don't know.

a reply to: WeRpeons

I don't know anything. I don't have any explanations and I don't cling to any theories.

I apologize if you thought I was trying to belittle you. The only person I can effectively belittle is myself, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

originally posted by: Talorc
You're looking for enemies in the wrong places. This is why I can't take these militant atheists seriously- you are just beating a sick dog that actually poses no threat to anyone.

No threat to anyone? How many hundreds of thousands of children are indoctrinated each year? How many parents flat out refuse to teach their children basic science because they fear it is evil? Why are so many of them still pushing for pro religious laws? Why are they so intent on spreading propaganda via ignorance and intellectual dishonesty? Considering that so many people believe their cracked out version of reality, I'd say it definitely still poses a threat, although you are right that it is dying, mostly because of their own doing, ie fundamentalism.

A full transition to materialism would spell the death of us. By all means, perhaps there is no creator, and perhaps there is no purpose to our lives. But we'd be better off not knowing it.

Couldn't disagree more. We're better off knowing the truth, than following some pipe dream just because it sounds appealing. Empathy and kindness surpasses religion itself and that is what matters in morality, not a creator or deity. I'm guessing you feel that non religious folks are more likely to do evil things or that religion keeps many people who would normally do bad things, in check? If so I do not agree in the least.

Everybody has a choice. Either you do something out of the goodness of your heart, or you do something because you fear the religious consequences. I know which person I'd trust more.

America needs an atheist president more than anything right now, but we all know that's never going to happen because of the ego of religious folks refusing to vote for any non Christian here in America. Christianity is pretty much a requirement for any high elected position and that is sad. It's almost like refusing to vote for a president that isn't the same race as you. This is destroying America more than anything because folks are so brainwashed they actually believe that atheists cannot be moral empathetic people, which is the complete opposite of reality.

Christians in power have been holding back scientific progression for the past few centuries and it still goes on today. I find that extremely troubling. If an asteroid were on a collision course with earth, we could go extinct as a species. If science weren't held back for all those centuries we might have developed a way to prevent it by now. Keep in mind our modern scientific method was really implemented in the early 1900s. We've come a long way since then, but imagine 5 times that. If the religious didn't hold science back, we could realistically be looking at a much more developed society with a greater understanding of science. At this current juncture in development, however, I don't think we can prevent something like that yet. So if it happens within the next 500 years or so, I know who is to blame, and it certainly isn't the atheists.

Sorry for the extended rant.

a reply to: Barcs

What "truth" is it that we are better off knowing? Is what you believe "the truth"? I suppose I should just take your word for it rather than deciding for myself. That's the popular way to do things nowadays.

Religion held no one back. The Dark Age myth has been debunked about a thousand times, most serious historians recognize that it's a misnomer. The whole idea was coined by Renaissance thinkers like Petrach who had personal agendas of their own, plus the fact that they had a very limited sources to draw on. It wasn't like today when we can draw on hundreds of historical sources from multiple regions written in multiple languages.

Religion was science, learning, and progress back then. Christian monasteries are where most scholars started out, it was where they were educated and taught. Some of the earliest "rationalists" were hardcore Christians. Look up someone like Roger Bacon, for starters. Guys like that developed their philosophies because of Christianity, not in spite of it. The Church was archiving and saving knowledge that would have otherwise been lost, just like how the Islamic Golden Age was spurred on by Muslims working with Ancient Greek and Roman sciences and expanding on them.

Do you know how the Renaissance began? Ironically enough, your vaunted rational worldview began after Byzantine Orthodox thinkers fled to Italy after the Turkish conquest. The Byzantines had stored up massive archives and brought some of that with them to Western Europe. It was because of them that the Renaissance began after the Italians could access it, and thereby the Enlightenment and modern rationalism was born.

The Byzantine Empire was a hardcore theocracy, and it's partly because of them that we are where we are today. Just like how we wouldn't have basic physiology, astronomy, and medicine without Arab Islamic scholars. Theocratic caliphs like Al-Rashid built the largest library in the world in Baghdad and patronized countless scientists and thinkers.

It was because of religion that we are modern, not in spite of it. Now religion may become superfluous, a "loose end" so to speak. Don't worry about fundamentalists, they're a dying breed and are just useful pets kept on a leash by their handlers.

Anyway, people should read more outside of Internet forums. Everyone just ends up parroting each other with the same tedious tropes, because it seems like I'm seeing the same kind of posts repeated ad infinitum. "Religion is backwards and evil, we must free ourselves, oh dear oh dear". How many times must I read these same lines?

On the opposing side, we have a bunch of braindead tards who don't know anything about the religion they're defending, and just end up crapping all over their own beliefs by being so stupid.

It's a very sad picture either way. Not trying to insult anyone personally, but most people here don't do themselves any favors.

Edit: I saw that you just said "for the last few centuries", so the Dark Ages rant may not have been necessary. Anyway, I guess I won't delete it because I spent a few minutes writing that stuff.

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Talorc
You're looking for enemies in the wrong places. This is why I can't take these militant atheists seriously- you are just beating a sick dog that actually poses no threat to anyone.

I'm guessing you feel that non religious folks are more likely to do evil things or that religion keeps many people who would normally do bad things, in check? If so I do not agree in the least.

Nope. I don't think that way at all, because that's a very stupid way to think.

originally posted by: Talorc
a reply to: Barcs

What "truth" is it that we are better off knowing? Is what you believe "the truth"? I suppose I should just take your word for it rather than deciding for myself. That's the popular way to do things nowadays.

Your argument was that we are better off believing in god, whether it's true or not. You said materialism would "be the death of us". I'm saying that if we KNOW the truth, THAT is what should be taught. We aren't better off blindly believing in something that is wrong. I'm not saying that your beliefs are wrong, but if they are, you should find something else to believe in, that's all. It benefits nobody to believe a lie.

Religion held no one back. The Dark Age myth has been debunked about a thousand times, most serious historians recognize that it's a misnomer. The whole idea was coined by Renaissance thinkers like Petrach who had personal agendas of their own, plus the fact that they had a very limited sources to draw on. It wasn't like today when we can draw on hundreds of historical sources from multiple regions written in multiple languages.

Which myth are you referring to? I'm not saying religion is completely at fault for everything, but people DID hold science back in the past and that's a fact. Galileo was excommunicated from the church for the heliocentric model of the solar system, despite being right. People were tortured and brutally executed for blasphemy in the middle ages. That's also a fact. There are numerous examples, although some are exaggerated, you are correct about that. It was only a couple hundred years ago that they were executing witches with no proof whatsoever, just a boatload of assumptions like, "If we prick that mole with a pin and it bleeds it proves they are not a witch but if it doesn't it proves that they are." # like that was considered factual in court despite being completely made up. Yeah that type of nonsense held us back because anybody that dared go against the grain was arrested on suspicion of being a witch. Going against the grain is precisely how science makes new discoveries and updates our understandings of things.

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: Barcs

I'm guessing you feel that non religious folks are more likely to do evil things or that religion keeps many people who would normally do bad things, in check? If so I do not agree in the least.

Nope. I don't think that way at all, because that's a very stupid way to think.

Okay that's definitely good. Can you explain why you said that humans are better off believing in god, even if it's false? That is what triggered my initial response to your post.

a reply to: Barcs

Well, that might become a long, convoluted discussion. Trying to explain why people should believe in something is very difficult.

But what I mean is this: people should not necessarily believe in "God", if that's clear enough. But belief in something, anything--it proves vital. There should be some pole, or axis, that people look towards.

Why? Because we can't act as our own yardstick and expect to measure reality. We should measure and be measured by something external, superlative, absolute. It's so very important that this is true.

Humanity looking only to itself for answers is a disaster waiting to happen.

But maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

a reply to: Talorc

Ok, I see where you are coming from now, but humanity looking only to itself is pretty much the only option since we can't demonstrate that a god or higher power exists. It's not like if we can't figure something out, reaching out to god will give us an answer. It's really just being hopeful and guessing about it. Yes, I suppose hope can be a good thing, but I think it's far better to work hard and try to find an actual answer as scientists are currently doing, rather than to assume it because it feels good. I have hope, but it's not in a higher power, or judging entity. I still don't think belief in falsehoods is EVER a good thing. The truth will set us free.