Why Climate Change is Worse Than We Thought

a reply to: mysterioustranger

It is far too late for such measures.

a reply to: JacKatMtn

My solution would be for the government to open a contest.

10 million dollars, tax free, to the person who creates the most efficient electric car.

10 million, tax free, to the person who creates the most efficient power source.

Then have the government provide the patents to these creations, to the whole world, for free.

See?

I just saved the Earth for only 20 million bucks!

originally posted by: beezzer
I'll have been on this planet for less than a century.

And yet I'll be responsible for it's doom?

(damn, gonna put that bitch on my resume!)

As will I and countless others. I do not absolve myself of blame in screwing things up.

I merely recognize that I am not blameless for bad things that are already happening and will continue to.

Such a distinction is not something I would brag about to God.

a reply to: Greven

I gave you a star for that one.

a reply to: beezzer

I would agree if our gov't hadn't already paid out 500M to Tesla for electric car advancement, to what end? a vehicle that only a few can afford?

And let's not forget another half billion to ... what was it called? Solyndra?

The last place I would expect an honest effort is from the folks who have our tax dollars...

This is petty bickering. Nobody is going to convince the other side in 2015. Let's suppose the timeline is 2030s to a crappy dystopian future climate apocalyspe scenario. Okay, so we magically are mind controlled into changing or something. How does that look like? Don't tell me kombyah, how exactly does it work? I can see some of the process, and it's so radical that it requires much more time than we have.

You have to not only shift people's perspectives, you have to revolutionize the political, social, economic, and monetary spheres. None of that crap can happen until it's crashes to the ground. We have a tiny freaking window of opportunity and nothing much will change until then.

How do I know? 32 years of observation. We don't transform systems until the old one's fully run their course. Look at how long we've had to get our act together, and look where we are? So in this supposed scenario which I think may very well unfold, it's best to quit wasting energies arguing with people who don't care, and won't get it, and instead work with people who do get it, and come up for plan of actions to seize the timing and implement actions when the opportunity for change arises.

That's my .02

a reply to: JacKatMtn

My idea would save the world trillions.

I would save the planet.

Statues would be made of me.

Women would weep, children would stare in awe, and men would emulate me.

But hey, I guess no-one wants to save the planet.

*sigh*

a reply to: beezzer

Political solutions won't "fix" the problem. I don't know anyone who actually understands the problem who thinks a carbon tax will fix anything - just because politicians are willing to exploit a problem for revenue generation does not make that problem invalid - that is what is known, commonly, as a straw man argument, and it is a common logical fallacy.

But, climate change is but one symptom of a much larger sickness - it's the fever that accompanies the flu, to use a bad analogy. Modern society is completely reliant upon exponential growth to survive - we need a growth in production/population, around .1% annually, to maintain the global society we have implemented.

Funny thing about exponential systems bound by finite resources - they're unsustainable.

There is an old proverb about exponential systems, where a "magi" helps a king with a problem, and his request for payment is thus: He presents a checkerboard, and asks that his payment be one grain of rice on the first square on the first day, two grains of rice on the second square on the the next day, four grains of rice on the third day, eight grains of rice on the fourth day, and so on, until he reaches the end of the board, and his debt would be paid - if he could not pay his debt, he would surrender his rule to the Magi.

The King had no foresight, and thought the magi a fool. He agreed to the deal believing he would have no problem supplying the rice required by the Magi - By the time he produced the rice for over half the board, the growth rate had increased from a few measly grains of rice into whole harvests, and was growing everyday, to the point that it was impossible to make the payment to the Magi well before the end of the board...

Giving more power to a distant government is worse than any climate change problem. A person can move out of a climate problem.

There is no escape from a mistaken all powerful one world government.

The Gulf Stream could change for reasons that have nothing to do with co2 in the air.

Maybe we should all move underground before the big asteroid hits.

a reply to: JacKatMtn

Whether or not a carbon tax exists is irrelevant to whether or not climate change exists.

Yet, the illusory carbon tax is what motivates many to deny that things ain't looking so great .

The dismissal of science because one doesn't like taxes does not change the science.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: beezzer
So the taxes don't do anything but financially penalize businesses unless they do something different.

But other than that, nothing is being done.

Nothing will be done because of people like you.

The world will burn. Pray that you don't live another 20 years.

Well, I'm old so I would be lucky to see another 20 years.

But since I'm old, I remember in the 60's and 70's people saying that we were all going to die. . . oh about 20 years ago.

Beez..... He is a zealot class climate believer.

Stop wasting your breath, he believes making poor people poorer will magically save the world, we couldn't end even if we tried our hardest.

Reason and logic don't matter.

His oracles told him that carbon taxes will punish those evil corps for polluting the world.

The obvious fact the corps will pay nothing and the poor will pay it all is not a concept he can even grasp.

I mean, it is simple " economictheory" to him.

We charge the corps, they pay.

Though the part where they just raise the rates to offset the charges is obvious to most that can add.

To an agw zealot, you are speaking dutch in China.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: beezzer
So the taxes don't do anything but financially penalize businesses unless they do something different.

But other than that, nothing is being done.

Nothing will be done because of people like you.

The world will burn. Pray that you don't live another 20 years.

Well, I'm old so I would be lucky to see another 20 years.

But since I'm old, I remember in the 60's and 70's people saying that we were all going to die. . . oh about 20 years ago.

Which has absolutely squat to do with the reality we face with global warming. Furthermore, what does carbon tax have to do with global warming and the science behind it? Are you saying that because you don't like (or understand?) the theory behind carbon tax, that AGW is of no concern to you or does not exist? Or did you come to those conclusions independently? It's quite astonishing the weak arguments and small-minded mentality that goes on when talking about something that will almost definitely have a grave impact on our future and the strong science that backs it up.

originally posted by: johnwick
Beez..... He is a zealot class climate believer.

Stop wasting your breath, he believes making poor people poorer will magically save the world, we couldn't end even if we tried our hardest.

Reason and logic don't matter.

His oracles told him that carbon taxes will punish those evil corps for polluting the world.

The obvious fact the corps will pay nothing and the poor will pay it all is not a concept he can even grasp.

I mean, it is simple " economictheory" to him.

We charge the corps, they pay.

Though the part where they just raise the rates to offset the charges is obvious to most that can add.

To an agw zealot, you are speaking dutch in China.

Where is your citation to back your previous claims?

Or are you like a child, who cannot back what you say?

I mean, after all, that's what you were going on about... adult thought and such.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: JacKatMtn

My idea would save the world trillions.

I would save the planet.

Statues would be made of me.

Women would weep, children would stare in awe, and men would emulate me.

But hey, I guess no-one wants to save the planet.

*sigh*

Wait , now I am confused. Are we trying to save life on earth or save the earth itself ?I dont see us having to save the earth itself as it is a 10* 10^300 million ton ball of leftover junk from the great expansion. Well , other than a planet the size of mars smacking a direct head on into it...then the earth would only reform later on.

Hey!

I gave a solution to fix everything.

And it cost less than a blind date with Bill Cosby!

Why is everyone so angry?

a reply to: redtic

Human kind is more successful at discovering new solutions when unencumbered by governmental control. All of the inventions we take for granted today were discovered by individuals who had 20 times more wealth (every one had 20 times more wealth before 1913) and zero governmental interference.

AGW is central control propaganda. Climate change is normal.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: redtic

Human kind is more successful at discovering new solutions when unencumbered by governmental control. All of the inventions we take for granted today were discovered by individuals who had 20 times more wealth (every one had 20 times more wealth before 1913) and zero governmental interference.

AGW is central control propaganda. Climate change is normal.

You mean like the internet?

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: johnwick
Beez..... He is a zealot class climate believer.

Stop wasting your breath, he believes making poor people poorer will magically save the world, we couldn't end even if we tried our hardest.

Reason and logic don't matter.

His oracles told him that carbon taxes will punish those evil corps for polluting the world.

The obvious fact the corps will pay nothing and the poor will pay it all is not a concept he can even grasp.

I mean, it is simple " economictheory" to him.

We charge the corps, they pay.

Though the part where they just raise the rates to offset the charges is obvious to most that can add.

To an agw zealot, you are speaking dutch in China.

Where is your citation to back your previous claims?

Or are you like a child, who cannot back what you say?

I mean, after all, that's what you were going on about... adult thought and such.

I don't argue with walls, it makes me feel and look and sound stupid.

BTW you know how google works right?

Try it, everything I said is there at your finger tips in mere seconds.

In fact it would take more electricity for me to link it than for you to google it.

I thought you were worried about the co2 problem.

You are demanding I waste energy, your entire world is a sham.

Eric Rignot, one of the study's co-authors, wrote his own study last year that concluded that the glacial melt is now "unstoppable."

Mmm that daily dose of doom porn was quite filling. Meanwhile in other news, Europe's Cryosat has found that arctic ice is in fact growing in thickness.

a reply to: beezzer

If the efforts were not tainted by profit margins, we could get alot done... most folks that have lived through the crying indian of the seventies for pollution, the eighties concerns with nuke power to the 90's EPA and this latest crisis of a changing climate, have at least in my acquaintance showed an interest in altering their life practices, to less impact our environment... which is good...

It's those whose only goal is to become RICH on what should be an honest global effort to maintain our big blue marble that have held up any progress.....

Those are the same folks who preach green whilst living in mansions, flying in private jets, yet feel justified in their massive footprint because they spread the word....

We (USA) could be some much further along if our gov't didn't protect those with the deepest pockets... IMO we should be at least 50% done with transition from old school rail to maglev tech to move goods... think of the reduction in carbon footprints if were that far along..

Like another poster said, it's become a petty argument, which in the end may be part of the plan? who knows...

Until there is an honest effort, without profit involved, this is where we will always be herded... into the same petty arguments?