Contrails, chemtrails, and pollution

a reply to: network dude

Sorry???

Firstly how on earth would you know what tone I was using?

Angry! Not at all, in fact tell me what side of this debate I am on from my post?

I'm not angry with anyone in this thread, I've not called either side anything derogatory for you to come to that conclusion. IMO you probably have seen something in my post and misconstrued what I meant.

The OP asked two questions and I answered in my opinion.

a reply to: payt69

I agree about the pollution aspect but I'm more concerned about the contrails reducing sunlight by up to 10% here in the UK over 20,000 square miles covered by aircraft contrails on a normal day (with right weather conditions).

Not only does this have an effect on our bodies ability to produce Vitamin D, the cloud cover created also acts to keep more heat from escaping the earth and this leads to more warming.

a reply to: flammadraco

I apologize. Perhaps I was angry and read it incorrectly.
At the time it seemed adversarial, but in retrospect, you are correct. again, my apologies.

a reply to: network dude

No problem



I do the same thing myself when I'm reading threads and post something and realise my mistake afterwards!

This is a contentious debate for both sides and folk have preconceived notions already when entering this debate. I normally stay out of these threads but the OPs questions were interesting so I thought I'd pop my head out and have an opinion, won't do that again in a hurry

a reply to: flammadraco

1: Because the Chemtrail Theory has overshadowed the real issue of persistent Contrails that does have potential health issues by reducing the amount of sunlight reaching the earth

What is the issue with persistent contrails?

So do you have a problem with Cirrus clouds?

Also do clouds not block sun from reaching the Earth?

reducing the amount of sunlight reaching the earth by up to 10%, some 20,000 square miles of the UK airspace is covered by persistent contrails and this could lead to Vitamin D deficiency and other health related illnesses.

Why not quote the article correctly if tour going to use it....

Contrails, which are clouds of condensed water vapour and soot particles made by the exhaust of jet engines, sometimes disperse within minutes but can also be present in the sky for many hours. They can also act as a catalyst for the formation of further wispy cirrus cloud.
Globally, vapour trails are thought to cut sunshine levels by less than one per cent, but this figure could rise to 10 per cent in areas under busy air corridors, such as the south-east of England, according to The Sunday Times.

www.telegraph.co.uk... ml

And where exactly is anything said about Vitamin D, or anything health related?

So whilst Chemtrail believers and debunkers try and out do each other in threads such as these, we are not addressing the real health issues regarding Persistent Contrails is having on our health on a daily basis.

So where exactly are you that you see persistent contrails on a daily basis that effect your health?

www.pbs.org...

Guess your not looking hard enough because it has been addressed as far back as 2006 as shown in the link above...Also google study of persistent contrails and health...Enjoy.

So discussing "Pollution" from aircraft and sunlight reduction in a Chemtrail thread is extremely on topic and should be given more credence than whatever theory anyone has on the powers that be poisoning us fellow earthlings!

You should probably look in the other threads in this forum and I bet you see where it was discussed.

Have you ever thought to look closer to the ground for the pollution aided health effects?





Seems to me those are more of a risk for health problems...than this 35000 ft above my head where the winds are always moving.

But hey that's just me, you can believe whatever you want.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

With all due respect, I'm not going to debate this any further, it seems that no matter what anyone says in these threads they are in for a bashing! I could go on and show sources for the "opinion" I have but it would just be bait for some other member from either camp to bash! I answered the OPs questions with an opinion, that was all!

I'm outta here,

Peace

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: network dude

No problem

I do the same thing myself when I'm reading threads and post something and realise my mistake afterwards!

This is a contentious debate for both sides and folk have preconceived notions already when entering this debate. I normally stay out of these threads but the OPs questions were interesting so I thought I'd pop my head out and have an opinion, won't do that again in a hurry

Please don't let my crankiness push you away. It's that time of the month for me and I just get a little edgy. (time to pay bills)

a reply to: flammadraco

With all due respect, I'm not going to debate this any further, it seems that no matter what anyone says in these threads they are in for a bashing!

It's not bashing , as I am trying to point out pertinent information your leaving out...there is an easy way to fix that you know?

Also you made the statement that the discussion of pollution doesn't come up and I was pointing out that if you read through many threads in this forum you would see that you were wrong...but that's up to you to actually research things before making those type of comments.

Again not bashing.

I could go on and show sources for the "opinion" I have but it would just be bait for some other member from either camp to bash! I answered the OPs questions with an opinion, that was all!

Isn't that how a debate on a topic works...you bring your evidence that you think backs your claim, and a debunker does the same.

Now you toss all that evidence together and see what stands at the end...also know opinions are good but facts are great.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Before responding to me again, go and read my post again, look for key words like;

"UP TO" 10% reduction, (Up to - being the operative phrase meaning maximum in this text)

There is no point "debating" this issue with you as your condescending responses are more than enough to prove that any mature debate on this topic in this forum is not going to happen!

Think you need to step away and come back level headed as your way to hot headed on this topic to be anything close to civilised

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: payt69

I agree about the pollution aspect but I'm more concerned about the contrails reducing sunlight by up to 10% here in the UK over 20,000 square miles covered by aircraft contrails on a normal day (with right weather conditions).

Not only does this have an effect on our bodies ability to produce Vitamin D, the cloud cover created also acts to keep more heat from escaping the earth and this leads to more warming.

It's an interesting conundrum. We know that when RH is low, contrails don't persist at all, and so there is no dimming effect, but conversely, when RH is high and they DO persist, how much dimming is caused purely by the contrails and how much would have happened due to natural cirrus formation anyway?

I don't know if there is any way to answer that.

a reply to: flammadraco

"UP TO" 10% reduction, (Up to - being the operative phrase meaning maximum in this text)

And your leaving out under heavy plane traffic...not the elsewhere heavy traffic isn't observed. Things like that make a difference in the context of the article.

You also said 10% of the earth being blocked of sun when that is a fallacy as it didn't say that now did it?

You also mentioned it said something about Vitamin D deficiency and other health risks...so again nothing like that is said in the article so I know what you said, and you still missed the pertinent information.

There is no point "debating" this issue with you as your condescending responses are more than enough to prove that any mature debate on this topic in this forum is not going to happen!

Oh it can be debated, but for that to happen you can't just pick and choose what you want to put together as though it is fact.

Think you need to step away and come back level headed as your way to hot headed on this topic to be anything close to civilised

Why because I questioned your cherrypicking of words as though they were fact...and believe me I am being civil and so far from being hot headed.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Have a read if the following article regarding the potential effect of contrails.

www.pbs.org...

For your information, I do not believe the Chemtrail theory, and had you read my post more accurately, you'd of picked that up.

But you seem like a steadfast chemtrail debunker and your actions have been clouded to such an extent that you lash out and bash any poster with a different opinion to you even if they agree that the chemtrail theory is wrong.

This is my last post to you on this thread, I can now see what posters mean when they say debunkers attack posters in every chemtrail thread as you have proven here!

Now climb down from your peddle stall and Google "Contrails effects" and you will note many links discussing this very issue. Then Google Vitamin D deficiency and health issues associated with it.

Then finally, go and learn some decorum and social skills whilst you're at it as you are someone that I would not like to debate any topic with

a reply to: flammadraco

Have a read if the following article regarding the potential effect of contrails.

Thanks for linking the the same source I posted for you a few posts up...so I am familiar with the article.

But thanks anyway.

Now climb down from your peddle stall and Google "Contrails effects" and you will note many links discussing this very issue. Then Google Vitamin D deficiency and health issues associated with it.

Do yourself a favor and look through my posting history and you will see I am very familiar with this subject and how contrails work and the effect it has, so don't act as though I am clueless here.

You can get that from clouds so blaming contrails is a bit of a fallacy. They don't help, but there are other factors out there that contribute the same if not more than contrails.

This is my last post to you on this thread, I can now see what posters mean when they say debunkers attack posters in every chemtrail thread as you have proven here!

Who attacked you...I pointed out your misrepresenting of facts, and if that bothers you maybe you need to do something about that so it doesn't happen in the future. Like don't put words together so they look like they back your claim.

Then finally, go and learn some decorum and social skills whilst you're at it as you are someone that I would not like to debate any topic with

So because I have a different opinion on the facts your posting I have no decorum or social skills...Amazing.

The reason you won't debate me is because I won't agree with your opinion...Imagine that.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Now climb down from your peddle stall and Google "Contrails effects" and you will note many links discussing this very issue. Then Google Vitamin D deficiency and health issues associated with it.

the largest contributor to Vitamin D deficiency is life indoors, a sedentary lifestyle or working night shifts. The most susceptible are the obese. In order to have an increased risk due to lack of UVA you would need to live in a place that rarely had sunlight in certain seasons like the upper NW (Seattle?) for example.

what's a peddle stall?

a reply to: howmuch4another

what's a peddle stall?

I also wondered about that...I guess it was meant to be pedestal.

1: Because the Chemtrail Theory has overshadowed the real issue of persistent Contrails that does have potential health issues by reducing the amount of sunlight reaching the earth by up to 10%, some 20,000 square miles of the UK airspace is covered by persistent contrails and this could lead to Vitamin D deficiency and other health related illnesses.

I still wanted to respond to your first point. I wholeheartedly agree that the chemtrail debacle is taking away way too much attention from real issues. That's one of the reasons for me to try to debunk them, even if it feels like a bit like playing whack-a-mole at times. Debunk one claim, and 10 other pop up elsewhere, one more nonsensical then the previous.

As far as the sunlight issue, wasn't that called Global Dimming? I've read some data recently that indicates that it's actually taking on a reverse trend since the 80's

Wikipedia:

Global dimming is the gradual reduction in the amount of global direct irradiance at the Earth's surface that was observed for several decades after the start of systematic measurements in the 1950s. The effect varies by location, but worldwide it has been estimated to be of the order of a 4% reduction over the three decades from 1960–1990. However, after discounting an anomaly caused by the eruption of Mount Pinatubo in 1991, a very slight reversal in the overall trend has been observed.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...

So whilst Chemtrail believers and debunkers try and out do each other in threads such as these, we are not addressing the real health issues regarding Persistent Contrails is having on our health on a daily basis. So discussing "Pollution" from aircraft and sunlight reduction in a Chemtrail thread is extremely on topic and should be given more credence than whatever theory anyone has on the powers that be poisoning us fellow earthlings!

I agree that it deserves more attention. However, I notice that people start bringing up the pollution issue in threads that were discussing other subjects, keeping them from focussing on dealing with the alleged reality of chemtrails. That to me is a shame, because as you will probably agree, we're better off with as little nonsense as possible polluting an otherwise important topic.

And besides that, some chemtrail believers are now trying to re-define jet exhaust and normal contrails as chemtrails. This in my opinion only confuses matters even more. We already have a word for pollution, so why should we need to borrow a term that is so riddled with nonsense already?

a reply to: payt69

I suspect the proper forum for discussion of REAL pollution would be Fragile earth.

This one is just for entertainment purposed

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: howmuch4another

what's a peddle stall?

I also wondered about that...I guess it was meant to be pedestal.

My bad, that's the one I meant

a reply to: payt69

I don't normally come into these threads as I see all the back and fro from both sides. I think what happens with most people who believe in the Chemtrail Theory (including myself until I came to ATS and researched the whole issue) is there are stages. First you are probably told something about them, then you research them using Google and unfortunately there are websites out there that feed the Chemtrail Theory Hysteria, then you delve a little deeper and come to sites such as ATS and educate yourself. Then you have an epiphany and realise you have wasted to much time on the issue that has now been (IMO) completely debunked.

The best advice I could give anyone is to download an app such as Flight Radar and use it for any "suspicious" contrails. This is what I did and low and behold i now live a "Chemtrail Free Life"

Anyhow, you asked two questions and from looking at it I think I'm probably the only one that took the time to answer both your questions. I do think some folk need to use a little more decorum in this debate, however I completely understand the frustration having to debate this issue time and again with "Chemtrail Newbies" who are new to the theory, but if folk can't be civil in these threads, then probably best to stay away from them!

I don't normally come into these threads as I see all the back and fro from both sides. I think what happens with most people who believe in the Chemtrail Theory (including myself until I came to ATS and researched the whole issue) is there are stages. First you are probably told something about them, then you research them using Google and unfortunately there are websites out there that feed the Chemtrail Theory Hysteria, then you delve a little deeper and come to sites such as ATS and educate yourself. Then you have an epiphany and realise you have wasted to much time on the issue that has now been (IMO) completely debunked.

The best advice I could give anyone is to download an app such as Flight Radar and use it for any "suspicious" contrails. This is what I did and low and behold i now live a "Chemtrail Free Life"

Yes that's pretty much how it goes for most people. It's never an overnight process though. I guess first you adhere to one point of view, and once we're in that mode, it's really hard to see things otherwise. Probably has something to do with ego and it's inertia, more than anything else.

I guess it's the seeds that get planted along the way that finally start to nagg their way to the surface, and then a turnaround happens.. a moment of clarity. For some people that may never happen.. you know, rocky ground and all that.

Flight Radar is indeed a really cool app. I love going to the airport and see all the planes come in. It also gives me something to look at while there may be a lull in activity on the airport.

Anyhow, you asked two questions and from looking at it I think I'm probably the only one that took the time to answer both your questions. I do think some folk need to use a little more decorum in this debate, however I completely understand the frustration having to debate this issue time and again with "Chemtrail Newbies" who are new to the theory, but if folk can't be civil in these threads, then probably best to stay away from them!

I once again agree. I'm guilty of losing my temper at times as well. Frustration is indeed an important factor, and at times we must come accross as an evil bunch. Anyway I made this thread because once again there was someone going on about jet engine emissions in a chemtrail thread, and now at least we have an area we can direct such discussions to.