We Knew it was coming: NAACP wants Stone Mountain CARVING removed.

a reply to: Bicent76

We fought a war against Mexico too. Their flag still flies all over the place. Our official documents are written in English/Spanish and we have to hit "one" for English when we dial an automated line.

Mexico lost the war too BTW

What does that have to do with the destruction of historical sites.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Liquesence

Why is it only when a part of history that Southerners care for is in danger that all of a sudden "preserving history" is suddenly SUPER important, but up until then Southerners have been leading the way in masking and white washing history? Where was all the outrage for losing history when Oklahoma looked to ban AP History? Thankfully the guy pushing this controversy backed down, but I didn't see NEARLY this level of outrage of that event as I see over these ridiculous Confederate symbols.

Southerners are very proud of who they are and of their heritage, and they hold on to and fight for that (and many of them are likely clueless about history outside of the south of basic US history anyway).

I'm from the south, but don't consider myself southern, never owned or even cared out the flag stuff, but now I'm just sick of all this stupid crap (and I'm liberal). I am also a preservationist, and I think that history should be preserved and remembered, even the worst.

We have bigger and more important issues than trying to get rid of a damned flag and monuments that, while some people *have* have problems with it, wasn't such an issue until everyone started beating it into the ground and blowing it all out of rationality. They've made an issue out of a nonissue and they used this prick Roof as their call to action.

It's sad and it's sick.

a reply to: 200Plus

Mexico wasn't part of the states...

That is the biggest difference, the south was part of the states, decided to say deuces and start a war over the states rights to own slaves.

Even though in their constitution it was federal mandated that slavery would be legal...

So what does mexico have to do with the confederacy?

a reply to: Sremmos80

It has zilch to do with the Confederacy my friend.

I was responding to the "we fought a war against them" reason to destroy all the monuments now that the flag has been removed.

We've fought wars against several countries.

Spain
England
Germany
Mexico
Confederate States of America
France (as Colonies)

I know for a fact that I can wear almost all of them and not get a second glance (Germany, CSA, and maybe UK being the exceptions).

Now, I can think of no reason that a person would want to wear the flag of a foreign nation on American soil. However, both sides of the American Civil War were Americans.Both sides owned slaves, both sides used slaves in their armies, both sides committed atrocities, one side lost. That being said they were all still Americans before, during, and after the war.

a reply to: Liquesence

Maybe I'd agree with you if Southerners would actually promote the REAL history behind those symbols instead of pretending like the flag is the REAL Confederate Flag or that it wasn't brought out of obscurity by a bunch of racists in the late 1940's to promote Segregation. Instead it's this glorified IDEA of what this flag is and represents. Well that isn't history. It's mythology. So when you look at it like that, Southerners are just fighting to preserve a regional religion.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: 200Plus

Mexico wasn't part of the states...

That is the biggest difference, the south was part of the states, decided to say deuces and start a war over the states rights to own slaves.

Even though in their constitution it was federal mandated that slavery would be legal...

So what does mexico have to do with the confederacy?

The north supported slavery up until the south refused to pay them their tributes and taxes. Lincoln made sure to write the history books to make himself look like a saint and guarantee himself a legacy.

The whole war was over MONEY to be truthfull. Think of the north as the IRS and the South as Someone being audited for refusing to pay their taxes. OR see the north as a mobster "selling protection" and the south as the poor shop keeper being made to buy "Protection"

Point is it was nto for altruistic reasons. The US government was a sellout even in that time period.

a reply to: Liquesence

NAACP Makes Stunning Demand: Take Those Faces Off That Mountain

I agree with the members of the Atlanta NAACP Chapter. All our historic confederacy related monuments should be destroyed.....

...and replaced with the names or likeness of today's Americans who are victims of horrific CHILD ABUSE, NEGLECT, and MALTREATMENT at the hands immature moms and or dads who selfishly and irresponsibly introduce newborns, infants, toddlers, children and teens to a life of pain and hardship.

Kendrick Lamar, born in 1987, won a 2015 Grammy for rapping out the depression he's experienced since he was an adolescent. In a January 2011 LAWeekly interview Kendrick speaks about being SIX-YEARS-OLD and witnessing drug deals in front of his apartment. He talks about his 'living wild" parents who deprived him of experiencing an "Average Joe" American kid childhood.

Then there is Tupac, born in 1971, who raps about his severe childhood depression, "I wake up in the morning and I ask myself - Is life worth livin' should I blast myself? - I'm tired of bein poor and even worse I'm black - My stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch"

Read Tupac 'Dear Mama' rap to learn about his love-hate relationship with his substance abusing mom, and his hatred toward his dad. Does he deserve to be an honored Victim of American Child Abuse?

Let's not forget about Shawn 'Jay Z' Carter, another victim of child neglect whose mother allowed a young Shawn to run wild on the streets of Brooklyn, NY, causing fear and emotional or physical harm to every peaceful person living or working in the Marcy Houses and surrounding neighborhoods.

Since Tupac raps about his mom being harmed by drugs, thereby depriving him of experiencing a safe, fairly happy childhood, and Shawn Jay Z Carter raps about selling drugs to people like Tupac's mom, should these two victims of child abuse and neglect have their images placed side by side on Stone Mountain State Park, smiling at one another?

Is there room on Stone Mountain State Park to add a likeness of Baltimore Mom of The Year Toya Graham, who builds a large family she introduced to struggle and hardships, instead of being more responsible and having one or two children she could more easily care, provide for and supervise?

I am not trying to be a wiseguy. Frankly, I am totally disappointed with many of my American neighbors who are WILLFULLY ignoring America's National Epidemic of Child Abuse & Neglect that over the last three decades we have all witnessed threaten and harm many American children's lives, depriving untold numbers of children from experiencing a safe, fairly happy American kid childhood.

I understand why the confederate flag flying over government buildings was way out of line. For a substantial number of peaceful Americans it is a symbol of American oppression and greed that maliciously harmed and exploited many generations peaceful people.

However, erasing all the symbols of our past human ignorance does a disservice to future Americans who will become part of our ever-evolving human society.

I would argue raising children in loving homes that encourage children to learn about our world, and how we have evolved and continue to evolve as a species. Educating our kids about the atrocities of our past, using them as lessons learned for moving into our more peaceful future.

Growing up in the 60s, I quickly became friends with Motown musicians whose music conditioned me to believe they are peaceful, generous, loving, talented Americans deserving of my respect and admiration. Every one of my Motown friends wrote music loving, respecting or honoring the maternal half of our population.

Today when ten-year-old American kids wake up for school, they tune their radio's into popular music written and performed by the children and grandchildren of my Motown friends who have a different view of the maternal half of our human population.

I'm fairly certain most Americans with common sense realize why many of the children and grandchildren of Motown musicians, for the past thirty years characterize females in their rap art performances, our moms sisters, grandmas, daughters and aunts, as *itches and *hores, or less than human not deserving of respect.

I respectfully ask all members of the Atlanta Chapter For The NAACP begin a national campaign to raise awareness and educate children, teens and adults about all forms of Child Abuse and Neglect that harm developing children and communities.

Avery

#RestorePrideInParenting
#EndChildAbuseNeglect

This is the world we live in, whether it's radical Muslims or liberal Americans, demonize and destroy anything you find offensive or don't agree with. Though liberals claim to be tolerant, we know it's BS, they are only tolerant if you hold their exact viewpoint, otherwise to hell with you bigot!

a reply to: Liquesence

Who cares. The south doesn't have a culture. The South invented bourbon then stopped trying. Every good thing to come out of their corner of the country since then came from black people.

a reply to: beezzer

And Monuments should remain up, lest we forget why.

Thus endeth the argument.

Monuments are just that, memory set in relatively imperishable metal or stone.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Abraham Lincoln
November 19, 1863

This is why monuments such as these should never be removed. They serve as a reminder of what has passed, lest it be forgotten.

Bump.

Yeah...they have been showing pics of Stone Mountain all day.

It's all so Orwellian, no matter which perspective you view it from. I can't believe this is our reality in 2017. It would be great if the Aliens beamed down right about now LoLz!

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

~ George Orwell, 1984

What is wrong with all of you? 5 days ago everyone was worried about NK and now suddenly the NAZI's have invaded the US and anything representing the South from the Civil War needs to go?

Seriously. CALM THE F DOWN!

I really cannot believe the things that I am reading in this forum and on ATSNN right now.

Seriously. CALM THE F DOWN!

This is not Trumps fault. This is not Obamas fault. It is your f'n fault. Buying into the notion that if a statue or a flag is removed suddenly racism and hate and violence will stop. It has always been here and will be here looooong after we are gone. It is humanity. There is no black or white. That is the fringe. We are Americans. If you do not like it get the f out. Go to Syria. France. Brazil. I don't care but the US and the fringe have gone loony f'n tunes.

The more things that are removed...the more hate will build to a boiling point. On BOTH sides of an argument.

Nazis...#...they are no more dangerous than the KKK. Please tell me, in modern times, the last time someone was lynched and killed. When? When was the last time someone was an owned slave in the US? Please, tell me.

I do not remember ANY of this even 20 years ago. 8 jackoffs might get a permit and shout White Power at a courthouse and by 3:30 they were home drinking PBR and listening to JOhn Cougar Mellancamp.

What I have seen is an uptick in the suppression of speech, violence in the streets every weekend since mid 2015 that rivals third world countries and attack on Law enforcement.

Seriously. CALM THE F DOWN!

originally posted by: Bicent76

originally posted by: pheonix358
How is this any different from ISIS destroying historical sites in the Middle East.

It is the same mind set!

It is a stupid mind set.

P

you do know the confederated had black slaves right? They held that flag up, and that flag represents their dogma right? Part of that dogma, was to dominate another race beating them, raping them, and forcing them to work, oh and not to mention MURDER THEM!!

I think it is about time to grow the hell up in AMERICA....

You need to read history again. What you accuse the South of doing the North did to Slaves too. The monument is so we don't forget our past. No one alive today owned slaves or was a slave. Blacks are just using it as scapegoat for their own failures. The white man not holding anyone back. If you don't like the monument, don't look at it. Just like if i don't like rap music, i don't listen to it.