Philly Cops Didn’t Know they were On Camera as a Dozen of them Tore Into One Unarmed Man

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: alienjuggalo

I don't know what happened before, couldn't see the guy that was getting beat so I'm not saying a thing about the actual beating. I just hope there won't be riots over this.

I hope there is.

I hope that every time a group of cops beat an unarmed person senseless, riots ensue. Every single time. No exception. When it becomes apparent that each beating (or shooting) of an unarmed person costs the city tons of taxpayer dollars in containing the riots that will follow, maybe some serious steps will be taken in how we handle it.

Riot. Lots. Every time.

Police state, military on the streets, curfew in place, end of freedom as you know it...Every time.

An unarmed man is not necessarily zero threat, anyone with front line policing experience will tell you that.

Do you think the government in America, or anywhere, will back down to subdue riots? If they back down, then something else happens that you don't like, riot, they back down from that too...It sets a precedent. No, they will smash you and your riot, may be not necessarily then, they may just simply look to contain, but from the ashes and debris, you will get smashed mark my words.

Look at the riots we had here in the UK, the police (I can only comment on MPS here in London) were ordered to contain the riots, but not engage. After the riots, I think it's near on 3000 people were turned over, more than half arrested and charged, quite a few got custodial sentences. Then from that legislations started being brought in for the increase level of force police can use during such unrest, a draft was made to train military troops in particular, paratroopers, in combating urban civil unrest for future riots, also the punishment given out to such individuals, especially those in social housing, was brought in and/or increased. People have no idea just how much freedom to protest they lost, from those riots. In this day and age, you cannot win with chaotic rioting, everything is stacked against the rioter, everything.

a reply to: TKDRL

I have been falsely arrested and falsely detained and although I am white, but for some reason people seem to think I look Iranian, I used to get pulled and searched on the terrorism act so many times that I lost count. I complied and nothing happened at all, because I knew I was right, I knew I was innocent, so what's the big deal? Sure take me in, I'll sit in a cell, eventually get out and then contact my solicitor to lodge a complaint.

To kick off against police is absolutely pointless, its counter productive because you're simply giving them the reasons needed to justify force.

I can't comment on race and policing in America, in the UK that really doesn't happen, a copper is not just going to pull someone who is a darker complexion for no reason, people like to think that happens but it doesn't. However, in some areas you have to expect it. As a senior black copper said who ran Lambeth, "While young black males are predominately committing violent crime, I'm instructing my officers to target that demographic." People then think its racism, it's not, yes its stereotyping, but stereotyping has saved lives, believe it or not.

a reply to: SecretFace
Ah, now it makes sense. You are from the UK, have been submitting to the crown for how many centuries now? It's not like that here, we are supposed to be free individuals here, not subject to a "crown government".

a reply to: SecretFace
Sounds like that good black copper is a great house negro. No, you don't "have" to look tan or black, you can just look poor and driving too nice a car. You are probably a drug dealer or stole it, either way, cha-ching.

But to be honest, a darker skin individual is gonna get that second look and more scrutiny more often. I have seen it first hand, and I am not even black, just a light skinned native. When I have been out all summer, and my skin is darker, I get way more scrutiny, way more rude talk for no reason from cops.

When I was stopped while white, I probably looked a bit too poor to be driving the car, so maybe they thought they could be onto something. Just walking down the sidewalk while more tan was enough to get harrassed. I didn't drive it much once summer hit.

Big beard, no suit in a BMW was suspect enough. God forbid I had darker skin as well, I would probably be thought of as a terrorist muslim.

Fun fact. In the US, we are supposed to be allowed to be secure in our person, our vehicles, and our houses. So much so, that shooting cops that don't knock, bust down your door, or sneak in in the dead of morning, and you shoot them, it's not a crime. Well, if you are white anyways. If you are not white, you have to go to trial, and might get off. The white guy in I believe it was texas was not even charged, while they charged a black guy for the same exact thing.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: Gothmog
Will hold judgement on this as well. I dont know why the police were involved in the beginning .What I apparently do see is the person struggling against the police till the end. Even Rodney King admitted he should have been more compliant during the arrest.

I would struggle too if the only reason they had to stop me was they saw me talking to 2 guys, so they thought I was buying drugs.

That would be foolish. If you are in the right , dont press the issue.

Actually, it would not be foolish. What is foolish is to let the cops get away behavior like this. What we all should be doing if we are in the right is pressing the issue that they are corrupt, violent, and wrong in procedure. We've not pressed the issue for so long that they think they can get away with whatever they want, with maybe a slap on the wrist. All I have to say after seeing this is "Plummer VS. State" those dumb cops don't deserve to breath my air!

a reply to: alienjuggalo

simple rules to follow when dealing with law enforcement. remember no attorney can help you if you incriminate yourself.

1. the cop is not your friend. the police officer is there to arrest you.
2. keep your mouth shut.
3. only give name, license, and insurance information.
4. keep your mouth shut.
5. only speak when an attorney who represents you is present.
6. keep your mouth shut.

a reply to: subfab

There's a better rule explained in a youtube vid I can't seem to find. Both an experienced lawyer/attorney and a seasoned LEO tell you, Never talk to the police. The only question you need to ask is "Am I being detained?" After that, no more words.

ETA: Not the vid I remebered, but it's still useful.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

It's almost like cops don't care anymore

They know the chief will just tell them to keep it off camera next time

originally posted by: SecretFace

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: alienjuggalo

I don't know what happened before, couldn't see the guy that was getting beat so I'm not saying a thing about the actual beating. I just hope there won't be riots over this.

I hope there is.

I hope that every time a group of cops beat an unarmed person senseless, riots ensue. Every single time. No exception. When it becomes apparent that each beating (or shooting) of an unarmed person costs the city tons of taxpayer dollars in containing the riots that will follow, maybe some serious steps will be taken in how we handle it.

Riot. Lots. Every time.

Police state, military on the streets, curfew in place, end of freedom as you know it...Every time.

An unarmed man is not necessarily zero threat, anyone with front line policing experience will tell you that.

Do you think the government in America, or anywhere, will back down to subdue riots? If they back down, then something else happens that you don't like, riot, they back down from that too...It sets a precedent. No, they will smash you and your riot, may be not necessarily then, they may just simply look to contain, but from the ashes and debris, you will get smashed mark my words.

Look at the riots we had here in the UK, the police (I can only comment on MPS here in London) were ordered to contain the riots, but not engage. After the riots, I think it's near on 3000 people were turned over, more than half arrested and charged, quite a few got custodial sentences. Then from that legislations started being brought in for the increase level of force police can use during such unrest, a draft was made to train military troops in particular, paratroopers, in combating urban civil unrest for future riots, also the punishment given out to such individuals, especially those in social housing, was brought in and/or increased. People have no idea just how much freedom to protest they lost, from those riots. In this day and age, you cannot win with chaotic rioting, everything is stacked against the rioter, everything.

Not everything. They have the numbers.

I agree though, any riot will not be successful. If it were, it would be called a revolution. Still, probably not for the best, although the last one worked out well for a while.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

Dirty Police scum implement there own form of perverted justice.

Name them, shame them, and to be honest hunt them down and hurt them in the same manner they have done to others!

Because lets face it Police brutality is above the law these days, else why would it almost be an everyday occurrence and go seemingly unpunished.

originally posted by: Gothmog
Will hold judgement on this as well. I dont know why the police were involved in the beginning .What I apparently do see is the person struggling against the police till the end. Even Rodney King admitted he should have been more compliant during the arrest.

It is very hard to be "compliant" when you are told, "put your hands behind your back" while at the exact same moment of being given that command, someone else is punching you in the head.

natural reaction would be to move your hands to your head in an attempt to cover up from the punches, but guess what? By doing so, you are not "complying" with Officer's instructions to put your hands behind your back. Which Police then use as an excuse to continue the assault.

See how that works?

a reply to: Gothmog

"Will hold judgement on this as well. I dont know why the police were involved in the beginning ."

Why? Involvement is neither here nor there in this instance considering the Police presence is a given as is the serious assault to endangerment of the victim's life and possibly severe disfigurement.

"What I apparently do see is the person struggling against the police till the end. "Even Rodney King admitted he should have been more compliant during the arrest."

I would love to see what you did yourself should eight plus individuals pummel you into oblivion for the best part of 5 minutes considering struggling for you life is pretty much a natural reaction while you retain consciousness.

originally posted by: Gothmog
Yes you have the right to defend yourself. But not the freedom to do so when those words "you are under arrest" are spoken.Actually , you do have the freedom to resist arrest. Except you have the consequences to face when doing so....

And those consequences should be limited to restraining a suspect to effect that arrest, not beating the suspect into submission.

There is no way in hell this man was still fighting back against all those cops, no way in hell.

There is no justification for it. None at all.

It is entirely possible for an adequately trained person to immobilize another person and get them in cuffs. The claim that this is so difficult punching and kicking is necessary is a bs argument usually only made by those who want to try to defend police brutality.

If a cop doesn't like the fact that someone is going to resist being arrested, so much so that they think assaulting a citizen is "justified", then they are not suited to the job and should not be in that position.

Then again, this shows that so many police in the US don't even have the basic training needed to understand the rights of the citizen. These people are in powerful positions and they don't even understand the core concept of innocent until proven guilty.

All police officers need to be fired the moment they show that they have no understanding or respect for the fundamental tenet of the law. The moment a police officer thinks someone is guilty and therefore deserving of less respect and protection in their care they need to be fired instantly and replaced by someone who understands the most basic aspects of law in our countries.

originally posted by: Gothmog
All these videos never show the entire event. Always just the part that some can use as proof of their beliefs....PEACE.

It's not about beliefs, its about reality.
The reality is that there was an innocent man detained by police who then acted like a pack of animals and assaulted him violently in the street, expecting to be protected from being held accountable for their actions by the fact that they wear a uniform.

There is no room for translation here, because no matter what happened before this video started, there is ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFICATION for any police officer to act like an out of control animal against anyone, regardless of their reason for being detained.

Here's the thing you keep on ignoring - the police have one job, to prevent and investigate crimes, and bring those SUSPECTED of crime to the JUSTICE SYSTEM.

You (and many others like you) seem to want to do away entirely with the notion of innocent until proven guilty and give every cop the right to be a judge on the street, and an executioner too.

These people have one job to do when arresting someone, and that is to get the innocent person in front of a judge, and they are supposed to do that while maintaining the safety of that person. It's not hard, it's not difficult, and no amount of being a brutal cop apologist will change this reality.

The problem in the US is that you've allowed cops to think that they can be excused for brutalizing, or even murdering, people in their care. You seem to have given up holding these people to any standards, and as such you now have a police force which EXPECTS to be allowed to kill innocent people in their care without being held accountable for it.

Just look at the police unions who not only fought against their officers being held accountable for the deaths of innocent people in their care, but then THREATENED to sabotage policing efforts in cities to "prove a point"!

These people are out of control, and your entire nation needs to be reminded that every person encountering a police officer is INNOCENT until a court finds them guilty.

a reply to: Gothmog

Give that a try. Get about a dozen of your enemies together and tell them to beat the crap out of you while you lie on the ground and they are to stop when you lie completely still and put your hands behind your back. Now, don't move or try to protect yourself while 2 or 3 are trying to cave in your rib cage, don't put your hands over your head or face when you see a boot coming at you, don't squirm while a 200 lb man drops his knee on your spine and grinding his weight in to it. Just lie there and take it. No Matter What They Do, lie perfectly still. You couldn't do it with one, let alone a dozen.
The last thing we need is more people making excuses for them.

a reply to: SecretFace

Yep. Just crawl over and lick their boots. That should avoid a beat down and give the nice Naz..... er... police officer a pair of nice shiny boots. The lengths apologists will go to just amazes me.

a reply to: Rocker2013

We don't let them. But there has been so much red tape put i place that it makes it a long and slow process. It's also not cheap to do as well. It's just the level of punishment handed out does not cause them to fear the crime.

While I have no clue what the guy is being beaten for with the first two police arrive. I don't see any way for them to explain why the others joined in on the beating and not detaining the man. No matter what the guy was doing be for he wasn't doing it now. Punching and kicking a person when they are down is not an effective way to get a weapon from them or managing to put restraint on them.

But the moment they chose to keep beating the man even after they hand enough people to disarm and detain him, was the moment they chose to give up their careers in law enforcement.

These beating dose not help with lowering crime rates. It's causes them to go up. Look at all the place beating have happen. The crime rate is going up.

I was thinking about this, trying to picture how it could happen.

The cops always say the person was resisting. The person says he wasn't. The cops are trying to handcuff the person. That requires lowering his arms and placing his hands behind his back. And they attempt to do this while punching the person in the head and hitting him with night sticks. Think about it. If someone is punching you in the head you are going to try to block the punches to protect yourself. Blocking the punches requires lifting your arms and putting your hands in front of your face. The exact opposite of what the police are trying to do. Every time you flinch or try to move away from the punches or block them, you are resisting the police efforts to put your hands behind your back.

You can not shout self preservation out of a person. The police can yell "Stop resisting" all day long but if they are hitting you in the head you are going to try to cover up and protect yourself.

The sad thing is, I think the police are fully aware of this and use it to their advantage every day.

a reply to: DAVID64

All what you say is 100% true, protecting yourself from physical damage is a reflex. And police themselves are not immune to mob mentality so better not let it get that far if possible. Usually first contact is with a single officer and if you don't immediately cooperate then his/her buddies will be coming.

Find out if anything told of you is an order or just a friendly request...Such requests that start out with "will you please... " or "why don't you..." often aren't lawful orders.

Now, I've been told that besides giving your name and ID they only things you should say are:
"Am I being detained/arrested?"
"On what grounds am I being detained/arrested?"

...and if asked any question":
"Officer, I'm cooperating but won't answer that question."

Don't say why you won't answer questions, don't let them fool you with casual questions such as "have you been drinking?" because the #1 thing they are doing is collecting evidence against you. It all goes down on the report. Cooperate yes, don't give them ammo to be used against you.

You'll hear this in court:
"The defendant stated he'd been drinking..."

Oh, on topic - these cops clearly forgot or ignored their training and should be investigated.

At no point is a clenched fist a way to grab an arm or leg to hold the person down to keep them from resisting. Same goes for kicking. You can pin people with a foot, but the moment your foot comes back up to strike a person your no longer trying to restrain that person. Your beating them, which isn't their job, no matter how much a person moves about on the ground. They not paid or trained to preform action in this manor, it's something they brought on their own and are doing of their own free will.