Hoover officially supporting disc at Roswell?

The more I look through this, the more that seems to be there all saying basically the same thing...

1. In the early years of UFOs, the government had no idea what these things were (Soviet craft, private experiments, etc.) They did know that they WERE NOT theirs.

2. This changed in July of 1947, coincidentally, after the Roswell crash. We then see better defined protocals, less verbage wondering what these things were, and a more concentrated effort to learn more about them.

3. Another change in July of 1947 was a shift in the relationship with the public. Prior to this, the military wanted to let the public know it was doing everything in it's power to find out about these things. This all then changed, to a focus of explaining away the sightings and trying to keep it out of the public eye.

4. This had been successful to a degree, until 1952, when over a period of weeks, Washington DC itself was buzzed by numerous UFOs. Not only were they sighted (and by pilots no less), but they also registered on radar as well. UFOs were again in the public eye, and they moved swiftly to try and explain them away as temperature inversions, even though radar operators knew better.

I'm thinking of making this a personal little research project, of trying to go step by step through the documents, and using ONLY these documents from FOIA, see what kind of tapestry it all weaves. Granted, there are THOUSANDS of pages in the UFO section, believe it or not, so it will take some time, but when I'm done, I'll cite links and page numbers, etc. to make it easy to verify each and every source.

Now this is some interesting detective work, Gaz. Make hard copies of every file you use. You definitely appear to be on to something.

I don't know if you want to keep this a public affair or if further research would be better discussed via more private means. Public does mean more people know, but then again, it could also allow the "wrong people" to know that much sooner as well.

First off, any files I use in my project will also be on CD-ROM backed up as well as floppy most likely.

Second, these are already in the public domain, and released via FOIA, so if they then yanked them, I'd think it pretty hard to defend themselves....

Have you ever looked for a specific doc on the FOIA site? Man, that is a tall order, hehe... That's why I'm just going to go through them all (in the UFO section, and in certain people's sections, such as Hoover's), and then try and piece it all together. It's going to take some time.

Well, last night I went through the first 50 docs, one by one. Absolutely AMAZING stuff there.

After seeing documents that were almost all blacked out, presented by researchers, etc. I really didn't expect to find much through FOIA, so I never really delved into it that much. This memo kind of kick-started it for me, and my plan is to go through each document over the coming days, weeks, etc. as time permits, and see what picture emerges.

Right from page one, I was riveted. It starts with a sighting of 10 discs in formation, but guess what? It isn't Arnold's sighting! It's by a pilot though, and a well-regarded one at that, and in the same area of the country, but a day later. However, he wasn't the only one to see it! The same kinds of objects described by Arnold, were also reported by other civilians, a United Airlines pilot, Portland Police, a retired Air Corps veteran, etc. just over the next few days through a few days after Roswell. I also saw the aftermath of the memo at the start of this thread, outlining how Hoover pledged to cooperate with the War Department in investigating the discs, per the General's suggestion (I believe this is found on page 16 of Section 1a under UFO's in the FOIA reading room). Anyhow, that was the first tidbit, so it will be a while reading all of this....

Gaz, my hats off to you. Your patient investigation through the FOIA docs impresses the hell out of me. People like yourself are the reason I remain open-minded on the possibility of Alien UFOs vs. Human UFOs, because you are going through tangible evidence and piecing it together in a rational fashion, instead of spouting stuff about brainwashings, nordics, and grays. If only more people took the hard science approach to it that you do, then ET and UFO studies might not be looked upon as a joke by the rest of the world.

Once your research is complete, if you would like, I might be able to get you in contact with Nick Cook, author of The Hunt for Zero Point, and reporter for Jane's.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

Not sure how "entertaining" it'll be, when I'm done, but I'm doing it for the purpose of consolidating, condensing, and organizing the data that the government itself has given us, to make the case for it. I'm not looking for a book deal, hehe...and never would call myself a writer.

There are some pretty quack things in there that the FBI kept tabs on too, such as a woman who claimed to know their agenda, etc. I'm going to try to focus on those sightings, encounters, etc. that the government had a serious interest in, and that they believed warranted further investigation. Many of the documents are scattered in the timeline as well, such as the above example where the initial memo is on page 44/45, and the answer to it is on page 16! This is the kind of thing that takes time, as I'm going through them all.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

Not sure how "entertaining" it'll be, when I'm done, but I'm doing it for the purpose of consolidating, condensing, and organizing the data that the government itself has given us, to make the case for it. I'm not looking for a book deal, hehe...and never would call myself a writer.

Well, "The Hunt For Zero Point" is a nonfiction book. It's a collection of 10 years worth of research into "what happened to research on anti-gravity" and discs feature heavily into the book. Cook, in the tradition of Jane's reporters, takes a very careful approach to check and recheck his facts, and is quick to admit when a false lead or disproven idea comes into play. I've had the pleasure of meeting him in person, hearing him speak, and conversing with him over lunch, and he's a man who takes his work very seriously. In general, for a Jane's reporter to start making speculations on pseudoscience without verifyable info is tantamount to the death of their career.

And apparently he's still investigating it on the side. When I told him of my family's history in the subject of special research, he asked that, when I'm ready to talk, he's ready to listen. I'll have to wait until my father retires before I can divulge much of anything, and even then will have to keep quiet on half of it. But especially anything as verifyable as FOIA memos regarding the subject of the discs he would be interested in. If others, such as yourself can be found, we might even be able to coordinate an effort to produce factual, verifiable information on this subject, which he could later put into another book. As he's already a noted and respected author, his chances of writing and getting a book like this taken seriously would be much higher than an unknown.

However, this is all speculation, of course. There is every chance that he could have simply been humoring me at the time.

Originally posted by Gazrok
... Many of the documents are scattered in the timeline as well, such as the above example where the initial memo is on page 44/45, and the answer to it is on page 16! This is the kind of thing that takes time, as I'm going through them all.

It probably would be a good idea to convert the pdf files to different format. html for example. It would make it a hell lot easier to organize it.

Let me know if you need any help and thanks for the heads up. This really sounds interesting.

Thanks, but really the only way, I fear, to do it is going to be reading them all, and then going "wait, this answers so and so document", as I go along. I've been noting page numbers in such occurances, and making all kinds of notes as I go along, so that when done, I can make some sense of it all.

I'm REALLY surprised I haven't seen anything like this done before...so I'm also going to make sure that's the case too. Still, I want to go through them all just for my own reading too.

Originally posted by thelibra
Well, let's see... Pretty much all my questions were answered then. I have to say, this is pretty convincing evidence. And if the Air Force wasn't around yet, and it wasn't the Army or the Navy...and it sure as heck wasn't the Russians or the Germans... And pretty much everyone else in the world was not even in a position technologically or resource-wise to produce these craft. The memo does specifically state that the "bulk" of the crashes were fakes...which means some were real...

...but for some reason, an alien spacecraft still seems far-fetched. Despite all the other evidence, I still have trouble believing that an alien ship crashed at Roswell... It just doesn't pan out, mathematically for the distance they'd have had to travel.

...unless they didn't travel from star to star, but perhaps between dimensions?

It doesnt pan out mathematically? Thats utterly absurd.

Youre assuming that every race in the universe is as technilogically backwards as we are.

Were dealing with a superior civilization. More than likely, they posses technology to make distances that seem so far to us like a sunday drive for them.

The arguement that aliens cant be here because space distances vare too far is the most absurd arguement against their existance.

Even our primitive scientists theorhetically are discovering that through principles, such as folding space, quantum singularities (blackholes for you laymen), and wormholes, distance is not the barrier some people seem to think it is.