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Care-taker humbly seeks advice

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posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 08:52 PM
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I have extensive experience with this breed, passionate interest in nutrition for and behaviour of canines. So I take upon me the task of, in home care-taker of two giant over weight extremely pampered Rottwielers.
Piece of Cake.

Neither have ever in their six years had ANY discipline, at all, they can't be separated, they are, were,( I introduced some discipline) in ultimate control of the house, they have never been socialized, so I can't walk them or take them to the vet one on one.
They are extremely obese, have been fed " human" food and huge amounts of "treats", the owner will purchase very expensive diet food and add high fat human food to pamper them.
They are on a NO treat diet for a month now and loosing an ounce here and there, but I can't excercize them.

I am baffled that any one could turn these amazing creatures in to frustrated couch potatoes. They are not aggresive towards any one introduced, which is good but they jump all over any one but me. And the people who come just think they are "Cute Puppies" " Oh, Look how happy they are"
When I say "No they are expressing dominance", people look at me as if I uttered a profanity. They address them in high pitched voices, witch just confirms the dogs notion that they are idiots.
One of them is very dominent, blocks my way and reacts reluctantly.

My concern is how do I handle this on a long term basis? Every time "an old friend" enters the house my diligent discipline evaporates.
And these poor creatures are bored to death.

This is when "love" turns into abuse.
Why do people "Love" their animals to death?
Yes they have food and shelter, but they don't have a life. They have a big back yard, unlimited access to food(not with me), all the medical care they need, but they are deprived of being what they are, Rotties with an abundance of energy and intelligence.

How can I engage them?
I love this breed, that is why I took it upon me, but I feel responsible for their well being and I don't know what to do.
Response please.
Thank You for reading what should have been in the rant section.




posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 09:21 PM
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You may need to study up on pack behaviour.

If we look at a typical pack, there will be an alpha male and an alpha female.

Let's say there are 8 dogs in the pack. Either the alpha male or the alpha female will dominate the other, but not in all things. 3 may dominate 4 but 3 may be dominated by number 5. It is not heirachial.

When 'an old friend' visits, the dogs see that you are dominated and thus they can respond to the old friend as they wish. You are dominated by the old friend because you cannot control their behaviour.

My dog will not sniff men because I can smack him on his nose and thus have taught him not to. But he does it to women and if I tried to smack him on the nose I may have unintended contact with the women in a place that is a no no. So he gets away with it. The women refuse to smack him on the nose so as far as I am concerned, they can put up with it.

In this area, my dog sees that I am ineffective and thus does what he likes doing.

You need to dominate your visitors!

All they need to do is raise their knee when a dog jumps up. Very effective at stopping any dog from jumping. If you cannot get them to help, then you will never change the behaviour.

P



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: pheonix358

Thank You, I Know, I know, I know, but these people have been conditioned to these dogs and they don't know me.
I am "The Nasty Nanny" who doesn't "love" the dogs.
It drives me nuts.
The girls are perfectly calm around me, and I can't tell these people "Don't greet the dogs in a high pitched voice, don't cuddle them as soon as the door opens, don't let them push you aside, ignore them until they have sniffed you.
And don't say "Treat" don't give them treats. Humans are dumb.
And I am in charge of a leathal weapon ( the dogs ) that is priceless but I have no say. Argh.
They think I am nuts.



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: WalkInSilence

I think abuse is way to harsh a word to be used here. Lazyness is the culprit. Lazy guardians end up with lazy, inactive, bullies. I have 2 grown Pattern ale Terriers, 4 5 week ol Patterdale pups, and a 1.5 year old Aussie. We have many acres, chickens, sheep, cats, and all of my fur children mind ME. They sorta mind my hubby. I am the Alpha in this home and I work at it. My pups already go to the door to be let outside to do their business! They follow me outside and again inside...all when I call to them to follow. They are 5 weeks old!

I am a proponent of nose pop on rare ocassions. My 2 year Olds learned by audio collars which I highly recommend. We do not shock our dogs, but they know that the collar will emit unpleasant noises when they don't mind.

For the most part, we have mindful dogs. Our Aussie came to us with a myriad of preset no-nos. She weighed 90 lbs and literally ate her way thru 6 remote controls. It has taken time and repetition but she is NOT THE SAME DOG as she was when we got her. She would bark incessantly when we returned home and jumped up on me, full weight. After being bruised from head to toe, I learned to turn around and stand still when she came up to jump or bark. This was every single time...and she no longer does these things.

Good luck to you and your project. I have no doubt a dog can be taught better habits.

edit on 1436237628Monday31Mon, 06 Jul 2015 21:53:48 -0500pmMonday5390931 by Ultralight because: typos



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: WalkInSilence

You need to control the idiots! Easier said than done.

Find a reasonable dry food that is different to whatever you feed the dog with. When these visitors want to give the dogs treats, give them a handful. The 'treat' for a dog is a reward, in this case for bad behaviour and thus re-enforces the behaviour. At least you can control what sort of treats they are.

As for exercise, will they run after a ball or stick? You have the yard space. Running is very good exercise.

P



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 08:00 PM
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originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: WalkInSilence




You need to control the idiots! Easier said than done.[/quote]

Yes I know, but these "nice" people are long time friends, they become very offended by my suggestions, they are conditioned to feed the girls. When I first came here the dog food was open on the floor " in case they got hungry". Of course I removed the bag.
And they are very nice and considerate people, but I want to be able to walk them.
The girls are extremely over weigth so I am doing my best to make them survive past their " Daddy's" recovery.
When I took on this client I said point blank he wouldn't have to worry about them for long if he didn't survive his surgery because the dogs would only have a year, tops in their condition. So I demanded changing eating habits if I where to have any responsibility.
He accepted this but the people paying "friendly" visits are less inclined.




Find a reasonable dry food that is different to whatever you feed the dog with. When these visitors want to give the dogs treats, give them a handful.


Have allready done that, removed all elephant sized treats, I measure out their food day by day, and any treat given is part of their daily food. But the vistors want to give them something "Special". Argh


The 'treat' for a dog is a reward in this case for bad behaviour and thus re-enforces the behaviour.


I know this, I wish I could train the stupid humans, they are the ones causeing the problems.



At least you can control what sort of treats they are.


Yes, but it is so important that they have consistancy, the girls, not the humans, I could care less.





As for exercise, will they run after a ball or stick?


Not really, they have lived a very inactive life, I have found that the only place they like play tug or catch is infront of the television, as soon as I sit in the liveing room they get all excited. Out side, no.
But I have started makeing two seperated trails of food for them to search, so they at the least have to search for their food.

My problem is not the dogs, but the people surrounding them, the Mollosse type have been my passion for thirty years and canines in general, people baffle me.

Thanks Pheonix



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: WalkInSilence

Dang it my whole reply vanished. And it was long.




posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 07:58 PM
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originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: WalkInSilence





You need to control the idiots! Easier said than done.


Thank you Pheonix, yes I am perfectly aware of all the basics and above that, but humans are a hassel.



Find a reasonable dry food that is different to whatever you feed the dog with. When these visitors want to give the dogs treats, give them a handful. The 'treat' for a dog is a reward, in this case for bad behaviour and thus re-enforces the behaviour. At least you can control what sort of treats they are.


I have hidden all the treats and the food, have measured out an amount for each dog, per day, so people that come can give them a treat if they wish from their respective container. This has been adapted for two weeks now.
People really resent me for this. The week-ends are the worst.
They used to eat together, now I create seperate "trails" for them so they, have to work for their food, they seem to like this.
Thus I can control the amount each dog gets.





As for exercise, will they run after a ball or stick? You have the yard space. Running is very good exercise.


No, they are completly oblevious to chase or retrieve.
And it looks like I will be here for a long time, so any advice is appreciated.
As I illuded to in the opening I am familiar with methods beyond the basics, so I am not looking for puppy training advice.

Thank You



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: Ultralight

Thank you Ultra for your reply, I am not familiar with the audio collar it sounds less abrassive than a shock collar.

Perhaps I could adapt it for walks. Allthough they cant' be seperated I will first have to handle that.
Thanks.



posted on Sep, 9 2015 @ 06:26 PM
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A little up-date. If any one will reply I would be very grateful. (CANCER)

So two months have passed now with great progress.
Both of "My" girls have lost weight to an almost appropriate scale, they are on a diet that makes their coats shine, energy levels up, and droppings are glorious
.
They can be separated and exercised.
They are calm and have achieved some cooperation skills. All good.

NO. Here's is where I need qualified input. Compassionate.
The more gentle girl has had a growth that was removed and checked. She had at the same time acquired a slight limp that the Vet and I related to the obviously annoying growth. So we decided to wait and see if it would go away when she recovered from the surgical removal of the growth.
No. So we decided to put her on anti inflammatory for a short period, we out ruled Lyme's. No improvement.
On her last day of the treatment she stumbled just walking and screamed in the most heart wrenching voice.

The day after, today, the vet diagnosed her with extensive bone cancer on her left front leg. The prognoses for recovery is very poor. Her biopsy is scheduled for tomorrow Sept. 10th.
I am devastated as the owner who is in hospital.
My friends took the brunt of my rage and tears.
I know this happens every day but....
She is so sweet.

Have you experienced this please share, advice is more than welcome.



posted on Feb, 6 2016 @ 07:02 PM
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Five months later
I'll just talk to my self here. Kind of a "dog log".
So the cancer ridden "puppy" is euthanized while I hold her. She was so trusting and calm. The vets were great.
Any way I still have this enormous very anti social beast to deal with. Lets call her G. the sister of B. who was put down.

She would not let me touch her if she was laying down, she would growl at me if I wanted her off the bed. She dislikes women. She was constantly harassed by her now dead sister. She would bark in the face of any one who looked at her.
She, both of them had never had any inter action with the "real" world.

I knew I had to do something drastic or she would forever be confined to a small space and me with her. Six years is a long time to be with out social inter action so I started slow. I took her for walk in remote places, slow walks because she had had reconstructive surgery and no muscle.
We introduced her to my beagle, far away on leash and she seemed calm.
And then I, against the owners wish, took her to one on one dog training. It was at one of those "big" facilities, because none of the private trainers I had talked to would take her due to her back ground.

She was fabulous, this dog who had never encountered any other dog than her "sister" and hardly any people, loved puppies, other dogs, strangers every thing. She became the dog the employees would rush to, to great.

She still gets a little stressed, especially around her owner, and still has a long way to go. But I have hope. Hay she even likes the Kitties in the cages at the store.
Oh, we finally let her and my beagle run free together, he thinks she is gorgeous and she just looks at him as if he is nuts when he makes his "moves".

My only problem is when she is around the owner, her personality changes completely.
I am very proud of her. For the terribly protected life she has had she is still a real dog.
edit on 6-2-2016 by WalkInSilence because: Bah Humbug

edit on 6-2-2016 by WalkInSilence because: silly me



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