Wales is going to ban E-Cigs in enclosed public places.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
People will be banned from using e-cigarettes in enclosed places such as restaurants, pubs and at work in Wales, under a new public health law.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Plenty are against the idea including anti smoking organizations like ASH and the Cancer research UK.
It is obvious to me that an E-Cig is better for you and will help give up real cigs.
Barmy this is anyway thoughts?.

BAN BAN BAN goes the UK ban bat!

Our government never happy unless its banning something!

Ugh.... Ive been using a E-cig now for 4 months and havent picked up a normal cig since. I have saved a lot of money by doing this and its non-offensive to people around me, yes studies have said they still introduce free radicals into the lungs and the vapor that comes out of your mouth. Some have said that its as bad as walking around London for a day breathing in the sweet sweet stench of scum.

I know that in both forms I have poisoned my body but you know what? It is my choice. I know people will now reply to this saying "Its not our choice to breath in your vape! You are forcing it on us", though this is a solid argument in a sense, I dont physically blow into peoples faces, I dont hold them and do it. I dont force them to stand around me or walk next to / behind me. I slow down to let people pass when they get all p*ssy.

Recently I was confronted by a young couple in the pub garden who threw statistics at me, shouting that I was killing them and myself and claiming that I was a drain on the NHS.

How does one reply to such a rock solid statement apart from the following:

1. If you do not like it then you do not have to walk 100 meters across the pub garden to complain, you can stay where you are.
2. I as a tax paying member of society am free to choose how I spend my time and money to relax and enjoy my down time
3. If they were so against it why would you go to a pub garden which allows smoking; where I live there are 2 pubs (very nice ones) which dont allow smoking in their gardens
4. The stench that followed them over to my seat was offensive and could have been bottled and used as a chemical weapon, thats right folks... unwashed hippy b*stards complaining about smell when they hadnt washed in what seemed 4 life times.

Simple fact of the matter is, I dont like peoples opinions shoved down my throat as much as they dont like to breath in the VAPE that I am using. Smokers dont carry around signs saying "if you are a shallow and pathetic w*nker feel free to come up to me and unload all your hate onto me as a stranger because you truely have nothing better to do with your life".

When smoking was allowed in pubs about 40% of the group I was with smoked the other 60% never b*tched and moaned, when we were moved outside after the first ban, they ended up joining us outside... they didnt b*tch and moan.

Im just going to stop this rant here and now because I am going to end up offending the % of people on here who dont smoke and think that its their god given duty to b*tch and moan at smokers and now Vaper's. Seriously, cross the road and walk past us like of the other people you dont like. Dont sit near us when YOU have a choice of seat.

Im done...

a reply to: boymonkey74

The times they are a changin , pen pushers have vaping in their sights probably due to big fag company lobbyists spreading half truths and lies on behalf of their tobacco company masters being hurt by people switching to vaping.

Even more nonsense is due in the next year due to the EU Tobacco Products Directive , specifically Article 20.
Enjoy your freedom to vape while you can.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
This is so stupid... E-cig vapor ISN'T the same thing as cigarette smoke. There is no such thing as second-hand vapor. Even if you stood RIGHT next to the person and breathed in their breath (like a shotgun inhale), the effects would be so negligible that you may as well have just kissed the person. You'd get the same effects.

While I tend to agree, do you have proof in the form of a study or anything scientifically verifiable to back up that claim?

I think the issue is that e-cigs have exploded in popularity before any real studies have been done on it, so any claims of safety, either from firs- or second-hand vapor, can't be considered solid yet.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
This is so stupid... E-cig vapor ISN'T the same thing as cigarette smoke. There is no such thing as second-hand vapor. Even if you stood RIGHT next to the person and breathed in their breath (like a shotgun inhale), the effects would be so negligible that you may as well have just kissed the person. You'd get the same effects.

And studies have shown this as well.

So its pure push towards the tobacco industry. That is where this entire thing is coming from and also from Government thinking it can curtail your freedoms. That you stand under it. That it is not merely a hired manager who is there to find the best most innovative solutions and provide empowerment, preserve freedoms, and increase well being of all its citizens from the bottom up. Because that is the only purpose of government and otherwise they can take a hike like all the tyrants of the world.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I think the issue is that e-cigs have exploded in popularity before any real studies have been done on it, so any claims of safety, either from firs- or second-hand vapor, can't be considered solid yet.

Vaping has been around for a decade , in 2006 it became an alternative to smoking but it was originally invented in the 70s.
The constituents in e-juice are Propylene glycol (an organic compound) and vegetable glycol (another organic compound) , nicotine and flavouring , nicotine in the doses used in e-juice is no more harmful than caffeine.
There is nothing in e-juice that could be harmful to passive inhalation and all studies I've seen show no harmful effects to vapers although some may have an intolerance to Propylene glycol.

It is my belief the only people at risk from vaping are those who run or own shares in tobacco companies.

I use a vaporizer. Not those cheap E-cigs the gas station sells. I found out the cheap ones use silicone atomizers, so if you take a long drag off of it it begins to cook the silicone. Horrible for you. However... having a subtank with an RDA in it seems to work for me and quite honestly i feel much better. I like my vape way more than cigs. Plus it smells great even if you aren't a smoker. Which would you rather sit next to someone who is blowing tar and carcinogenic burnt plant matter... or a guy who is exhaling a vapor that smells like candy and dissipates within 2 seconds?

I think there is a lot of propaganda from the tobacco industry about how bad they are because they are losing business. At least here in 'Murica, but I've heard that this country isn't really their cash cow market.

---- also on a side note... I find it funny how there is no outrage when the price of cigarettes has tripled in the last 7 years, but if McDonalds double "cheese burgers" went up to $2 a piece there would be rioting in the streets.

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: Ismynameimportant

Heavy metals, uncontrolled lab environments, fillers in the fluid cheaper than nicotine - They're a disaster waiting to happen.

Also, more importantly, smoking looks cool. Sucking a long tube of steam does not.

What the heck are you using? not the juice I am.

god... this is stupid.. the vapour is far far better than burnt planet material. but lets all bag it, because we probably get dodgy juice from cheap stores.

Lol

Never mind everything else you breathe killing you in public. Including burning toast.

making this illegal is just to keep tobacco companies in $$$.. well done guys.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I got this. www.treatobacco.net...

a reply to: gortex

But like I said, the popularity has only recently exploded...and your reply did nothing to prove or disprove my point that enough testing has not been done on it to lend credence to either side, whether you believe it to be perfectly safe or dangerous.

The studies you and I have both seen do nothing to show long-term use issues. It's crazy, but I'm of the firm belief that our lungs are meant to inhale our atmospheric air--anything else has potential to cause harm, like burning gasoline with ethanol in it inside of an engine designed for pure gasoline. It may not be catastrophic, but it does cause problems.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I got this. www.treatobacco.net...

Right:

The authors concluded that exposure to e-cigarette pollutants might be a health concern, as fine and ultrafine particles might be deposited in the lung.

There is a limited body of published research on the health effects of ‘second hand’ exposure to e-cigarette vapor. McAuley et al. (2012) assessed indoor air concentrations of common tobacco smoke by-products (VOCs, carbonyls, PAHs, nicotine, TSNAs, and glycols) emitted by generic e-cigarettes using four different high nicotine e-cigarette liquids (‘e-liquids’), and compared the results with those from analysis of tobacco cigarette smoke tests; they then undertook risk analyses based on dilution into a 40 m3 room and standard toxicological data. This assessment revealed no significant risk of harm to human health from e-cigarette emissions. In contrast, the tobacco smoke analyses mostly exceeded risk limits (McAuley et al., 2012). Flouris et al. (2013) exposed healthy volunteers to ‘second hand’ e-cigarette vapor for one hour and found small increases in serum cotinine but no significant changes in lung function. No studies have been conducted on the impact of longer second-hand exposures, exposures in children or third-hand exposures.

This is my point.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Ismynameimportant

The thing is that I agree with indoor smoking bans, but e-cig vapor just isn't the same thing. I have friends who get the custom vaporizers that exhale the huge clouds of vape. The only thing you notice with them is that the room starts to smell like whatever flavor they have and that's really it.

I would consider this a nearly ideal example of the slippery slope that opponents of legislative overreach are incessantly ridiculed for pointing out.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Fair enough. I don't think e-cigs have been around to adequately conduct a reliable long-term study on them. It's just annoying that governments are insisting on legislating on them without any scientific evidence backing them up. Bans and restrictions like this almost ALWAYS start off by the government jumping the gun on science and legislating by how they THINK the substance works.

a reply to: greencmp

You mean this is a good real world example of a slippery slope people have been complaining about actually coming to fruition? If that is the case, I kind of agree there. It's interesting how e-cigs became a casualty of cigarette hate.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

But baby powder is also a fine powder that causes cancer when inhaled as is cornstarch, flour, etc...

Fine powders are also explosive in the open air, I say we ban baby powder. It's really a matter of national security, frankly.

How many more children must die!

I quit smoking Cigs 5 years ago and started vaping. At that point in my life I was on three different inhalers, those steroids are REALLY HEALTHY for you, I had the persistent smokers cough and smelled like an ashtray constantly. Now I have quit the nasty cigs and snuff, use my inhalers rarely, mostly due to high humidity and allergies, and for the first time in 25 years I can breath without wheezing, no more coughing up black crap, no more offensive smell and lingering odor that never seems to go away. I love the taste and having control over my nicotine intake, I started at 24mg's and now I have cut back to 2mg's over the last two years with no terrible detox. I can understand where the general public might not want exposed to the vapor when they fully do not understand the difference and I respect that. In the US states are constantly passing laws to try to shut the e-cig market down with outrageous taxes but yet you can buy cigs in every gas station, supermarket, and smoke shop. The real evidence as to who is behind this harassment of vapors lies with big tobacco, the only advertisement found on US TV are for vapes that are being produced by the big tobacco companies.So it is a bad thing unless it is promoted by the companies that have been killing people for years with their tar and many dangerous chemicals that are released when smoking tobacco cigs, talk about conspiracies!!! I look forward to more studies coming forth on vapor to learn more but I can say without a doubt it has extended my lifespan and quality of life. Vape on vapors!!

I agree with the posters that state this is stupid. It is. After a lot of research , major hospitals give a choice to smokers of a patch but if you have an e-cig they will let you use that. If you have vaped (and not smoked at all) for a period of time greater than a year the health and insurance companies declare you a non-tobacco user. Not just a non-smoker but a NON-TOBACCO user. Get that ? Good. The fear mongering from governments is ramping up again.The only thing you can get second hand is WATER VAPOR . The reason for this is MORE REVENUE . And what does Gothmog say about government revenue?

Regulation=revenue=taxes=stealing from the middle and lower classes

NUFF SAID

hopefully they will be consistent and also ban perfume/cologne and air fresheners

originally posted by: and14263
E-cigs are too good to be true.

Remember, you heard that here first.

They are not harmless. By a long shot. Firstly, they drastically effect the platelet count in your bloodstream.

That is just the beginning.

My opinion? Either smoke or don't, you can't have the best of both worlds.

What???? I switched to e-cigs almost 3 years ago. I have had lots of medical tests since then, for unrelated life long problems. My blood counts are fine. The oxygen content in my blood is fine. Breathing problems I was having when I smoked have disappeared. My health is markedly better. And I didn't hear it here first, I heard it from the government that wants to tax it more first (already pay 8% sales tax on everything except food, books and sometimes clothes in NY and the 8% goes on e cigs and e juice and accessories).

How can moving from inhaling several thousand combusted chemicals into my lungs to inhaling 3 vaporised be worse? Please explain.

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: Ismynameimportant

Heavy metals, uncontrolled lab environments, fillers in the fluid cheaper than nicotine - They're a disaster waiting to happen.

Also, more importantly, smoking looks cool. Sucking a long tube of steam does not.

Heavy metals? NO.