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Fracking Has Had No ‘Widespread’ Impact on Drinking Water, EPA Finds

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posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: mc_squared

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Okay. I' m confused. The government is the only body that can help us so we must have governmental controlled healthcare and regulations and the government must force people to bake cakes because only the government has the ability to protect us, except when we don't like what the government says?


Is that about right?


I'm a Liberal who doesn't trust the government. You know why? Because industry has their greasy paws all over the government. Here's an interesting comment from the Pittsburgh-Post Gazette article I linked above:


I was on the call the EPA held back when it launched the study. The EPA representatives on that call explained that the retrospective portion of the study would provide helpful information, but that the prospective portion would be the centerpiece of the study because it would provide baseline data against which follow-up tests could be compared over the course of the study. The industry blocked the prospective part of the study, however, and it was eventually dropped.


So what's your solution though - just hand the keys over to that same industry corrupting the government, and expect everything to be hunky dory? We need accountability, which starts with an informed electorate that actually cares and holds their representatives responsible.


So is more government the answer or not?

You should have learned by now that people only accept that the government is telling the truth when it aligns with their personal beliefs.




posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 03:48 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
So is more government the answer or not?


I just told you: it's not a question of more or less government, it's a question of more responsible government.

And that starts with a more informed electorate, not the kind that regurgitates meaningless political one-liners. Still waiting for your solution in light of that...



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: mc_squared
How do you make people more informed? Better yet, how do make them WANT to be more/better informed? If you solve that puzzle, I'm sure you'll make a fine leader!



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: xmaddness

So don't trust when scientist and gov say fracking isn't causing issues, because gov money and beurocrats


DO trust like gospel when it comes to global warming


Curious that



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:23 PM
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The self-funding EPA?

Squeaky clean, right?

As mentioned in the thread, contamination can take place in various strata, and can leave drinking water unaffected.
However, there are plenty of cases where this isn't the case. Easy to cherry pick in either direction.

What's in the cocktail of chemicals going into the ground? Nobody will say with any clarity. Completely secret. That way there's a level of deniability for when any ONE of those chemicals in the cocktail is found contaminating water. "We pumped in compound X9FJE8787 [invented number by me for the purpose of illustration], yet you say you have JUST napthalene contamination....so it can't be the fracking liquids, that's mostly Ethylene Glycol. You must have a napthalene contamination from....er......um....somewhere else."

Money wins every time. Especially energy money.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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My grandma has 17 gas wells on her property, 2 as close as a few hundred yards away


Sounds like a lovely place. Are postcards available?



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:37 PM
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i got some tap water I would love the EPA to drink.
it only contains high levels of alpha radiation they declared safe to drink!




drink up EPA



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: mc_squared

originally posted by: NavyDoc
So is more government the answer or not?


I just told you: it's not a question of more or less government, it's a question of more responsible government.

And that starts with a more informed electorate, not the kind that regurgitates meaningless political one-liners. Still waiting for your solution in light of that...


The disconnect as I see it is that the narrative is that private citizens and corporations are immoral, cannot be trusted, and only mama government can save us UNTIL government says something that goes against the preconceived notions and THEN it's a conspiracy.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: Badgered1
By drinking water, people are talking about untreated raw water either from ground or surface right?



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

It’s not that all private citizens and corporations are immoral, but unfortunately the ones that make it to “the top” tend to be.

That’s because an unregulated system naturally favors this demographic. Some people like to believe a free market paradigm simply rewards the hardest working and most ambitious. But the reality is it best suits those that have no qualms about taking shortcuts; lying, cheating, stealing, etc, to get there - while others are in fact held back by their morals.

This isn’t conspiracy hearsay – there’s plenty of statistics to back it up. For example CEOs are 4 times more likely to turn out psychopaths than the general population:

Why (Some) Psychopaths Make Great CEOs

Unfortunately these also end up being the people that are then in the best positions to influence government. That doesn’t mean the sell-out politicians are any better, but at least the less psychopathic portion of the population has more say in their hiring and firing.

But what a lot of those common folk gain in morals & empathy, they also lose in apathy and ignorance – which is why I’m saying this is the heart of the problem.

It's complicated, and troubling - and there's no easy answer on how to get people in general to just care more, and think more...but on small scales at least I've seen such mentalities become extremely contagious. Under the right catalyst I think they could gain enough critical mass and momentum.

But there are forces out there, from both ends of the political spectrum, doing everything they can to prevent that momentum. Big business and big government - two sides of the same coin. Which is why believing in one over the other is useless, just going in circles really.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: Legman

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
a reply to: xmaddness


So even though there are countless posts here at ATS concerning this, it seems that the EPA has spoken, pockets were lined with money from the lobbyists, and the fracking community won.


Yep, countless posts on ATS....That mean nothing but hear-say and speculation....

It has been proven MANY times that fracking has no drinking/underwater contamination factors involved...But ATS have people they talk to or read on a website about contamination and all of a sudden it is true....I stopped arguing because people just believe what people tell them, but I live in south-western PA and we have wells everywhere, EVERYWHERE, and every person in our families have well water to drink and nobody that I know has any issues with drinking water! My grandma has 17 gas wells on her property, 2 as close as a few hundred yards away and her water well is nearby also and her water has been tested many times with no issues, and tastes amazing!

I feel bad for people who have no idea on the topic and just spout nonsense because they don't know....


So could you please post a video of you going and getting a few glasses of fracking water and could you then please drink them on camera? Only after I watch you drink a few glasses of toxic waste, will I even consider the possibility for myself.


I actually have drank thousands of gallons of well water from high fracted areas. I wire and shoot explosives in wells that the fract crews then fracture the sediment through. If you were in a helicopter where I work say two thousand feet off the ground you would see a landscape absolutely riddled with wells.


Fracturing occurs at least 13k feet. Yes over two miles deep (unless it's a vertical well(different story there)). The water I drink from wells come from about 500 feet deep. The two levels are separated by hundreds of formations which even if fract water seeped up would purify and filter the migration.


No I'm not taking a video of myself drinking water and putting it anywhere on the web. Take it off of faith im not lying... Or not



What I am actually opposed to is water re injection practices. That is what people should be up in arms about.


And what about the frack chemicals that migrate up the well between the sides of the bore hole and the well casing?

So let's tell the truth. Do they seal the space between the casing and the bore hole down to 12k ft.?

To my knowledge, they only cement or seal the casing to a depth of several hundred ft..

This would mean that frack chemicals can easily migrate up the bore hole nearly reaching the surface. In doing so, what's to stop those chemicals from migrating horizontally into any strata that could absorb them, including the water tables at various depths along the way?

I agree that wastewater injection wells are just as big a problem, if not worse. But I'm not about to pretend that the fracking procedure itself is safe.

If it were, the frack companies would have no problem disclosing the complete list of chemicals being utilized and they wouldn't have needed to have Dick Cheney award them with blanket exemptions from the regulations contained in the Clean Water Act.

As it is today, even the EPA doesn't have the authority to access the complete list of chemicals used by these fracking companies.

So I have to ask, how would the EPA know if the chemicals are present in the water if they don't even know what it is they're looking for, much less who put it there?



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 07:54 PM
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originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: Legman

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
a reply to: xmaddness


So even though there are countless posts here at ATS concerning this, it seems that the EPA has spoken, pockets were lined with money from the lobbyists, and the fracking community won.


Yep, countless posts on ATS....That mean nothing but hear-say and speculation....

It has been proven MANY times that fracking has no drinking/underwater contamination factors involved...But ATS have people they talk to or read on a website about contamination and all of a sudden it is true....I stopped arguing because people just believe what people tell them, but I live in south-western PA and we have wells everywhere, EVERYWHERE, and every person in our families have well water to drink and nobody that I know has any issues with drinking water! My grandma has 17 gas wells on her property, 2 as close as a few hundred yards away and her water well is nearby also and her water has been tested many times with no issues, and tastes amazing!

I feel bad for people who have no idea on the topic and just spout nonsense because they don't know....


So could you please post a video of you going and getting a few glasses of fracking water and could you then please drink them on camera? Only after I watch you drink a few glasses of toxic waste, will I even consider the possibility for myself.


I actually have drank thousands of gallons of well water from high fracted areas. I wire and shoot explosives in wells that the fract crews then fracture the sediment through. If you were in a helicopter where I work say two thousand feet off the ground you would see a landscape absolutely riddled with wells.


Fracturing occurs at least 13k feet. Yes over two miles deep (unless it's a vertical well(different story there)). The water I drink from wells come from about 500 feet deep. The two levels are separated by hundreds of formations which even if fract water seeped up would purify and filter the migration.


No I'm not taking a video of myself drinking water and putting it anywhere on the web. Take it off of faith im not lying... Or not



What I am actually opposed to is water re injection practices. That is what people should be up in arms about.


And what about the frack chemicals that migrate up the well between the sides of the bore hole and the well casing?

So let's tell the truth. Do they seal the space between the casing and the bore hole down to 12k ft.?

To my knowledge, they only cement or seal the casing to a depth of several hundred ft..

This would mean that frack chemicals can easily migrate up the bore hole nearly reaching the surface. In doing so, what's to stop those chemicals from migrating horizontally into any strata that could absorb them, including the water tables at various depths along the way?

I agree that wastewater injection wells are just as big a problem, if not worse. But I'm not about to pretend that the fracking procedure itself is safe.

If it were, the frack companies would have no problem disclosing the complete list of chemicals being utilized and they wouldn't have needed to have Dick Cheney award them with blanket exemptions from the regulations contained in the Clean Water Act.

As it is today, even the EPA doesn't have the authority to access the complete list of chemicals used by these fracking companies.

So I have to ask, how would the EPA know if the chemicals are present in the water if they don't even know what it is they're looking for, much less who put it there?


Ill try to answer this truthfully one at a time. I don't really have an axe in this Viking marauding. Im getting out of the oil business.


1) Yes. The cement SHOULD seal the pipe to the ground from the very bottom of the well up to past the Kickoff point usually 2000-5000 feet above the KO point. I occasionally run in a radial bond log tool to take pictures of the cement. It will tell you if the cement seals to the pipe and goes to the other side to the earth. The bore hole is usually what... 36 inches? It may vary. And yes sometimes when the cement job is crap they have to spend millions fixing it. Sometimes honestly the cement may be crap and they do not fix it.... BUT... what really happens is their hydro carbons are lost by a percent. So yes hydro carbons in theory could migrate up into the water reservoir. But remember this water table is very high at around 500 ft. As far as the frack fluid... not really a big chance because oil floats on this material and its really deep down.

2) Wastewater well injections are horrible imo. We need more research into this. I feel bad for oklahoma. And yes the early data suggest that they are associated with tremors.

3) I need to check man... I believe that the company I work for which is known as one of the best fracturing divisions releases all of the chemicals. Hell I could probably list them here right now, its not really a trade secret. They are not that bad. I promise. I think there needs to be more research done into well bore fluid rather than the fract. chemicals. Ive had heavy well fluid drip on me and that STUFF is caustic! A large portion of fract fluid is fiber and other large particle crap.

4) You didn't ask but you have to remember that oil companies usually 90% of the time do NOT own the land and where Im at the mineral rights.... The cattle rancher damn well keeps up with what is going on in his ground. I can't tell you how many times ole Billy Bob has driven right up to location and got right next to me as I'm wiring explosives (I'm on a list somewhere now) and ask me questions... even knowing he could be blown up at any second. 99% of these guys have had this land in their families for a long time and actively ranch. The lease money they get varies from really crap to very good 6k a month to 100kish depending on the rights they have and the amount of land( some get a percent, I've heard of this rarely).


Cheers man



edit on 5-6-2015 by Legman because: lots of typos... god do I suck this bad?

edit on 5-6-2015 by Legman because: (no reason given)




edit.. crap... I forgot to mention I'm describing horizontal wells... Which are 90 percents of everything drilled now.. more like 95 probably.
Vertical wells can be damn shallow... 6k feet even. But the margin of profit is so narrow for these wells they have to be PERFECT. Still likely if you have well water table contamination I would bet on it coming from a Vert. well.

ok now its wine time. Night
edit on 5-6-2015 by Legman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: xmaddness
Define "Widespread" without counting your payout.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: superman2012

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
a reply to: xmaddness


So even though there are countless posts here at ATS concerning this, it seems that the EPA has spoken, pockets were lined with money from the lobbyists, and the fracking community won.


Yep, countless posts on ATS....That mean nothing but hear-say and speculation....

It has been proven MANY times that fracking has no drinking/underwater contamination factors involved...But ATS have people they talk to or read on a website about contamination and all of a sudden it is true....I stopped arguing because people just believe what people tell them, but I live in south-western PA and we have wells everywhere, EVERYWHERE, and every person in our families have well water to drink and nobody that I know has any issues with drinking water! My grandma has 17 gas wells on her property, 2 as close as a few hundred yards away and her water well is nearby also and her water has been tested many times with no issues, and tastes amazing!

I feel bad for people who have no idea on the topic and just spout nonsense because they don't know....


So could you please post a video of you going and getting a few glasses of fracking water and could you then please drink them on camera? Only after I watch you drink a few glasses of toxic waste, will I even consider the possibility for myself.

Who would do that!? I wouldn't drink well water without knowing what is in it. I wouldn't even drink water out of a river! Unless you were talking about groundwater around fracking sites that then goes on to be treated?

You and I drink water every day without knowing whats in it . If you did , you would not drink water.



posted on Jun, 5 2015 @ 09:30 PM
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This entire thread made me Lol.

*facepalm*



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 08:30 AM
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originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: superman2012

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
a reply to: xmaddness


So even though there are countless posts here at ATS concerning this, it seems that the EPA has spoken, pockets were lined with money from the lobbyists, and the fracking community won.


Yep, countless posts on ATS....That mean nothing but hear-say and speculation....

It has been proven MANY times that fracking has no drinking/underwater contamination factors involved...But ATS have people they talk to or read on a website about contamination and all of a sudden it is true....I stopped arguing because people just believe what people tell them, but I live in south-western PA and we have wells everywhere, EVERYWHERE, and every person in our families have well water to drink and nobody that I know has any issues with drinking water! My grandma has 17 gas wells on her property, 2 as close as a few hundred yards away and her water well is nearby also and her water has been tested many times with no issues, and tastes amazing!

I feel bad for people who have no idea on the topic and just spout nonsense because they don't know....


So could you please post a video of you going and getting a few glasses of fracking water and could you then please drink them on camera? Only after I watch you drink a few glasses of toxic waste, will I even consider the possibility for myself.

Who would do that!? I wouldn't drink well water without knowing what is in it. I wouldn't even drink water out of a river! Unless you were talking about groundwater around fracking sites that then goes on to be treated?

You and I drink water every day without knowing whats in it . If you did , you would not drink water.

Speak for yourself. I know exactly what is in my drinking water and I have no problem drinking it.



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