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originally posted by: neoholographic
An entangled particle pair is sent through slots A and B. The particle from A goes to detector D0 it's entangled pair goes randomly to detector D1 or D2 after it's entangled pair has already hit D0.
What do we find?
The particle at detector D0 is an interference pattern or a particle and this always correlates with it's entangled pair even though when the particle hits D0 the particle from slot B hasn't hit D1 or D2. If D1 then which path information can be known and you get a clumping like particles at D0 and when which path information can't be known you get an interference pattern at D0.
If an independent material reality exists, why does particle A correlate with particle B even when particle A hits the detector before particle B has hit detectors D1 or D2?
originally posted by: ImaFungi
You believe that before a mind existed on Earth, Earth did not exist.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
Then a mind (or more) popped into existence from nothing from nowhere.
And created the Earth.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
This is the last time I will ever speak to you.
originally posted by: darkorange
What are you arguing about? Sure independent reality exists. We share same picture of events and the world after all. This fact needs no special lab set up.
Wave function collapse? Yes, but when my mind collapses that wave, person behind me not going to 'see' or 'feel' what I did?
Did anyone mention 'Quantum Darwinism' theory? Google it to rest your questions.
DO)
originally posted by: neoholographic
If an independent material reality exists, why does particle A correlate with particle B even when particle A hits the detector before particle B has hit detectors D1 or D2?
originally posted by: darkorange
What are you arguing about? Sure independent reality exists. We share same picture of events and the world after all. This fact needs no special lab set up.
Wave function collapse? Yes, but when my mind collapses that wave, person behind me not going to 'see' or 'feel' what I did?
Did anyone mention 'Quantum Darwinism' theory? Google it to rest your questions.
DO)
originally posted by: wildespace
Physical reality exists. The collapse of a waveform upon being measured is the collapse of our previously uncomplete knowledge into a more complete one.
We have knowledge of energy, and most don't consider that an "object", so your first statement is false and thus no need to make the leap to metaphysics, not only for that reason but for many other reasons. One can make any metaphysical claim they wish but if it's outside objective experience, it's not science, not objectively verifiable, and when two people make directly contradicting metaphysical claims we have no way to determine which is nonsense, or if indeed both are.
originally posted by: luthier
Hitherto it has been assumed that all our knowledge must conform to objects.
originally posted by: Arbitrageur
We have knowledge of energy, and most don't consider that an "object", so your first statement is false and thus no need to make the leap to metaphysics, not only for that reason but for many other reasons. One can make any metaphysical claim they wish but if it's outside objective experience, it's not science, not objectively verifiable, and when two people make directly contradicting metaphysical claims we have no way to determine which is nonsense, or if indeed both are.
originally posted by: luthier
Hitherto it has been assumed that all our knowledge must conform to objects.
So while metaphyics or the study of things which have no objective evidence may have some value, it seems very limited with respect to not being independently verifiable. Seeing as science has shown human beliefs are historically riddled with concepts shown by science to be incorrect (such as geocentrism), I sincerely wonder if anyone resorting to metaphysics is aware of this.
As Richard Feynman said, moogles are a great theory because they explain everything and nobody can prove that wrong. So what do you need metaphysics for when you've got moogles?
originally posted by: mbkennel
originally posted by: wildespace
Physical reality exists. The collapse of a waveform upon being measured is the collapse of our previously uncomplete knowledge into a more complete one.
I think all the experiments show that the collapse is an experimentally inducible physical phenomenon, not a mental one.