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Quantum Experiment Confirms Reality Doesn't Exist Until Measured

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posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 02:32 AM
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Just more evidence in support of the universe as a hologram. This goes along with evidence that gravity in 3 dimensional space-time corresponds to the entropy of entanglement on a 2 dimensional surface. Here's the article:


Australian scientists have successfully performed a famous experiment to prove a quantum physics prediction that reality does not exist until it is measured.

Physicists at The Australian National University (ANU) have conducted John Wheeler's delayed-choice thought experiment, which involves a moving object that is given the choice to act like a particle or a wave.

Wheeler's experiment then asks - at which point does the object decide?

Common sense says the object is either wave-like or particle-like, independent of how we measure it. But quantum physics predicts that whether you observe wave like behaviour (interference) or particle behaviour (no interference) depends only on how it is actually measured at the end of its journey.

This is what the ANU team found in its experiment.

"It proves that measurement is everything. At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it," said Associate Professor Andrew Truscott from the ANU Research School of Physics and Engineering.

"The atoms did not travel from A to B. It was only when they were measured at the end of the journey that their wave-like or particle-like behaviour was brought into existence," he said.


gadgets.ndtv.com...

The key point is, the reason quantum mechanics seems "weird" is because of materialistic beliefs. Scientist made the ASSUMPTION that a particle must be in superposition because everything should be reduced to it's material components. This was a HUGE mistake and Scientist are still chasing their tails trying to make sense of quantum mechanics.

Everything would be easy to explain and easy to understand if you don't start with the ASSUMPTION that everything has to be reduced to it's materialistic components. This is just a fallacy. It's counterintuitive because most people will say, how can a particle be in two states at the same time? How can it be spin up/spin down or clockwise/counterclockwise?

The answer is, IT CAN'T!

The only thing that's in superposition is the non physical wave function. This wave function contains observable quantum states that the particle can be in when it's measured. These states contain information in the form of qubits.


In quantum computing, a qubit (/ˈkjuːbɪt/) or quantum bit is a unit of quantum information—the quantum analogue of the classical bit. A qubit is a two-state quantum-mechanical system, such as the polarization of a single photon: here the two states are vertical polarization and horizontal polarization. In a classical system, a bit would have to be in one state or the other. However quantum mechanics allows the qubit to be in a superposition of both states at the same time, a property which is fundamental to quantum computing.


en.wikipedia.org...

So the qubit or information about the polarization of the photon would be in superposition, not the photon itself.

So I see a sea of particles that's like a sea of legos and they only take shape or take on observable states when measured. In fact, particles may not exist and they may just be a construct or expression of quantum information.

Once you take away the blind, materialist ASSUMPTION that a material particle can be in superposition and you accept that this superposition is non physical information of the wave function of observable states, then it makes perfect sense.

edit on 4-6-2015 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 02:54 AM
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a reply to: neoholographic

Surely my mind literally measures everything I see in order for me to see it - it brings it into reality that I can relate to e.g. mind over matter.

I am ignorant as far as quantum science is concerned, but that understood what are the uses for this research for us, will it change things radically or is it information that we may be able to use in the future some time?

I read about things being identified, found out etc but how often does this research really impact on our lives today? Another thread about the linkage between the brain and immune system is real to me and I can see its benefits, again mind over matter. With this research I am at the dummy stage - can you explain its possible uses? I am not ignorant criticising, I am ignorant wondering?



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 02:58 AM
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What if you are blind and cannot therefore see. Does that not suggest that nothing exists including the self yet the self exists whether it can see or not, does it not. Surely in order to observe anything in the first place then it must exist whether measured or not otherwise its surely not possible to observe anything because the observer doesn't exist. And if the observer doesn't exist then nothing can be observed or measured. Now i've confused myself. Don't buy the Hologram theory. Sorry



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 03:06 AM
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everything is in how you look at it



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 05:20 AM
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a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite


What if you are blind and cannot therefore see. Does that not suggest that nothing exists including the self yet the self exists whether it can see or not, does it not.

The article says nothing about the measurement needing to be performed by a human observer. In fact the delayed choice quantum eraser also proves that non-conscious machines can perform measurements. What this article is saying is that particles can exist in a probabilistic wave-like state but they change when they are measured (by man or machine), they go back to acting like classical billiard balls. The article says "reality does not exist if you are not looking at it" but that is absolutely false, it certainly does exist, it just doesn't exist the same way it exists when it's being measured/observed. Furthermore it only really applies to small quantum objects, large objects are essentially the same whether you are observing them or not.
edit on 4/6/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 05:22 AM
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This experimental confirmation of the supposition principle postulated in quantum mechanics has NOTHING to do with the holographic model of the universe. Nor does it mean anything as simplistic as the conclusion that reality does not exist until it is observed. Rather, it means that the classical notion of a unique reality that exists independent of how it is observed fails for quantum objects. That's as far as it goes. All the silly hype that is being reported in science magazines and blogs on the internet should be ignored as hyperbole, misrepresentation and distortion. Macroscopic reality is NOT a quantum system, so stop making the mistake that it can be regarded as such.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 05:27 AM
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originally posted by: micpsi Macroscopic reality is NOT a quantum system, so stop making the mistake that it can be regarded as such.


Maybe it is a quantum system, but slowed down.

This post did not exist until I posted it.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 05:47 AM
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Could be in the future this will be seen in a similar fashion as the Earth is flat theory. Making conclusions for a system we don't understand might be incorrect.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 05:50 AM
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i observe, therefore i am.

life is like you are the supercomputer who creates everything but doesn't know that fact.
or must not know...



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 05:57 AM
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a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Your hypothetical blind person is not alone in the universe. There are other sentient beings occupying and rendering the very space that the blind individual cannot perceive.

"Seeing" also only decodes certain properties of matter. Hearing and touch can also inform about the electromagnetic interplay that takes place around us. Your thought experiment is fallible because you presuppose that information cannot exist if it is not observable.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 06:26 AM
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originally posted by: Aleister


This post did not exist until I posted it.





Close - your post did not exist until I observed it.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 07:08 AM
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originally posted by: neoholographic
Once you take away the blind, materialist ASSUMPTION that a material particle can be in superposition and you accept that this superposition is non physical information of the wave function of observable states, then it makes perfect sense.

Totally agree. It still amazes me how some physicists just don't get it. Although I suspect the idea that a particle may be in an unknown state drives them mad "panic panic panic we don't know what state it's in" (and we are arrogant physicists and should be able to).........."It's in all states at once"....."Oh thank God for that panic over"....hmmmm yeah right

Oh and a reminder to everyone that ever reads anything involving a cat. The whole point of the cat thought experiment was to highlight the absurdity of the notion that a particle can be in two states at once. It is quite clearly in a very definite single state but we don't know which until the box is opened and thus back to the "panic panic panic" moment!

No multiple universes, no holograms, no particles at every point in the universe etc etc Just an awful lot of don't knows.........yet. Patience is needed and more level headed theory, we will one day.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 07:50 AM
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So virtually you all don't exist , when I shut down my phone or computer .. weird if you think about it..It's like pausing everything around me, and only the things I do or see are in motion?



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:09 AM
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I think a lot of this is silly word games and playing on people's ignorance, perhaps mixed with a few scientists needs to have their few minutes of fame. If someone is intelligent enough to read between the lines of sensationalism, they can clearly see the BS did not exist until human nature got in the way. It was in a crave-like function until the realization of being observed, after which was pointed at your heart. That same heart that foolishly leads you into pain over and over again.
edit on 4-6-2015 by pl3bscheese because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:20 AM
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I read about an experiment that took place a few years ago.

Basically the experiment result was that they were able to change the results of a past event.

The past event could change from the measured result acting like a particle or acting like a wave based on a decision in the future.

What they found with this experiment was that these quantum states only come into existance NOT at the time/place of measurement but only if the information is to be released for a conscious mind to observe.

Don't ask me for more information on it or how they did it. I read it here on ATS and the science link page attached to the thread.

It reminds me of a video game. You could have a "living world" game environment programmed to do actions whilst the players not observing it, but to save processing power, the "living world" is really only calculated as to what would have happened in the players absence when the player wants to observe that area of the world. If the player isn't going to observe that area then there is no point in calculating what happened. It's much more efficient.

I'm down with the simulation theory.
edit on 4-6-2015 by DaRAGE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:31 AM
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originally posted by: micpsi
This experimental confirmation of the supposition principle postulated in quantum mechanics has NOTHING to do with the holographic model of the universe. Nor does it mean anything as simplistic as the conclusion that reality does not exist until it is observed. Rather, it means that the classical notion of a unique reality that exists independent of how it is observed fails for quantum objects. That's as far as it goes. All the silly hype that is being reported in science magazines and blogs on the internet should be ignored as hyperbole, misrepresentation and distortion. Macroscopic reality is NOT a quantum system, so stop making the mistake that it can be regarded as such.


Of course it does. It's more confirmation that at a fundamental level of reality, materialism is non existent. Many Scientist are starting to come to the conclusion that information is more fundamental to the universe than matter. You have recent discoveries in support of the holographic principle which shows gravitational theory in 3 dimensions corresponds to the entropy of entanglement in 2 dimensions.


Are we living in a HOLOGRAM? For the first time, scientists prove strange theory could be true in 'realistic models' of our universe

Holographic principle suggests there is a 2D surface that we can't see
This surface contains all the information needed to describe 3D objects
Since 1997, equations used to show holographic principle could be true have been based on models that contradict theories about our universe
Now scientists have shown how it works in universe that is largely flat

To test the theory, scientists spent three years creating gravitational equations that do not require exotic spaces and, instead, live in a flat space. 'If quantum gravity in a flat space allows for a holographic description by a standard quantum theory, then there must by physical quantities, which can be calculated in both theories – and the results must agree', says Grumiller.


www.dailymail.co.uk...

At the end of the day, there's ZERO EVIDENCE that 3 dimensional volume has an objective existence. Scientifically speaking, the the 2 dimensional surface area surrounding a 3 dimensional object contains all the information allowed by physics in that area to describe that object.

Again, there's no evidence that a material particle can be in superposition, just information about the probable states that particle can be in when a measurement occurs. Here's more from the article:


They said one key feature of quantum mechanics –quantum entanglement – had to appear in the more realistic model of our universe.

When quantum particles are entangled, they cannot be described individually.

They form a single quantum object, even if they are located far apart.

There is a measure for the amount of entanglement in a quantum system, called 'entropy of entanglement'.

The team showed that this entanglement takes the same value in both a flat quantum gravity model and in a low dimension quantum field theory.

'This calculation affirms our assumption that the holographic principle can also be realised in flat spaces,' said Max Riegler at the Technology University of Vienna.

'It is evidence for the validity of this correspondence in our universe', says Max Riegler (TU Wien).

'The fact that we can even talk about quantum information and entropy of entanglement in a theory of gravity is astounding in itself, and would hardly have been imaginable only a few years back,' added Grumiller.

'That we are now able to use this as a tool to test the validity of the holographic principle, and that this test works out, is quite remarkable.'


Hears a video from Physicist Leonard Susskind if you want to go more in depth.



We could simply be a projection of quantum information that's entangled. You start with information describing a pure state. 1 clockwise/0 counterclockwise. This pure state becomes entangled and now you have the entropy of entanglement as these individual states look for correlation with the entangled states. You now have information going from a simple qubit to describing a complex entangled quantum states. This complex entanglement is projected in what we perceive as 3 dimensions.

Again, a lot of the confusion surrounding quantum mechanics stems from the materialist ASSUMPTION that all things must be reduced to their materialistic components. So you have people saying,"Wow, a particle can be in two places at the same time."

A Scientist will carry out an experiment on a particle or recently Caesium atoms and they will find the particle or the atom doesn't take a definite path when going from A to B. The materialist ASSUMPTION is then made that the particle or atom must be in two places at the same time. This is purely a belief that has no basis in fact. It's built on the ASSUMPTION that all things must be reduced to their materialistic components therefore there MUST BE a particle or atom in 2 places at the same time.

They never stop to ask, what if the only thing that's in superposition is the wave function which contains information about probable states a particle can be in when measured. PROBLEM SOLVED! The only thing that stands in the way is the materialist ASSUMPTION AND BELIEF that there must be a material particle or atom in two places at once because materialism has to be objectively real no matter what.
edit on 4-6-2015 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:36 AM
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a question for anyone who actually has an answer: would the gist of this be that reality is noncoherent until observed?

Imagine having a television. When you look at it you see the picture. But when you turn away the picture fades away into static, the various colors in the image smear/blur in a way that is almost like the entire series of frames that make up whats on the TV was being shown in a single image.

non-coherence vs coherence.

Is that the gist here?



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:38 AM
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And then there are the plasma tubes that are above us as if we're in a giant holographic plasma tv.


Well, beautiful dreamer awake, everyone is needed, there is work to do.



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:39 AM
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Kind of reminds me of the age old question. If a tree falls in a forest, and no-one is around to hear or see it. Does it make a sound, did it fall?
edit on 4-6-2015 by strongfp because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: strongfp

I'm gonna try and answer BFFT's question by responding to your post.

Sound is a human construct. There are waves of atmosphere being compressed and decompressed in a rythmic pattern which is registered by our minds as "sound".

The waves will continue to ripple without a human observer, but the sound will not be.

This explains the observation is necessary bit, without misleading the reader into the hocus pocus nonsense.
edit on 4-6-2015 by pl3bscheese because: (no reason given)



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