Obamacare will lower your premiums! Wait, oops...

a reply to: peskyhumans

Obama beguiled, socialists smiled.

People might have confusion about what that "Public Option" was.

It was a plan to buy a Medicare policy.

It wasn't public funded (so they claimed) and was not going to be available to just anybody.

It was killed off by insurance companies who got to the Democrats in Congress.

Yet now we have some State Medicaid plans that are in fact HMO plans but the State pays the premiums.

Public health insurance option

_______________and ...---...

President Obama repeatedly promised that his signature health law, the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare, would reduce insurance premiums by $2,500 for the typical family. Instead, premiums have increased by a comparable amount.

Obama Promises To Lower Health Insurance Premiums by $2,500 Per Year

a reply to: xuenchen

And now that every last potential competitor (among private insurance companies) has been vanquished or brought into line and the vestiges of the formerly pseudo-private but heavily regulated health care insurance monopolistic state sponsored cartel system is in tatters...

The demand will be loud and obnoxious for the total nationalization (aka "single payer") of our health care system.

What I presume has been the aim of this orchestrated implosion from the outset and plainly stated by some.

a reply to: interupt42
You do remember that the ACA act (Pelosi Care) had already been way passed and becoming extremely unpopular before that it was "blamed" on Romney Care dont you ? Before that , we were told it was based on the Canadian,UK,and Cuban system .Not one person mentioned Romney Care. You do remember it was the time when Obama was running for a second term and tried to find some reasoning for a very flawed bill . The one that will go down in history as the one that hurt the medical industry. His "flagship" legislation .The cost of insurance and medical treatment is going up DUE to the ACA.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: xuenchen

And now that every last potential competitor (among private insurance companies) has been vanquished or brought into line and the vestiges of the formerly pseudo-private but heavily regulated health care insurance monopolistic state sponsored cartel system is in tatters...

The demand will be loud and obnoxious for the total nationalization (aka "single payer") of our health care system.

What I presume has been the aim of this orchestrated implosion from the outset and plainly stated by some.

That was the original intent--see "Cloward-Piven." It was never expected nor intended to work.

a reply to: interupt42

You do understand that you're the first person mention a GOP vs Dem thing, right? So, really, no one here is more guilty of the accusations you're making than you.

a reply to: Gothmog

I do remember, I also remember regardless if a Republican or a Democrat is in office the same thing happens.
Oligopoly Corporations are the direct benefactors of our legislations, because their team of lawyers are the ones that draft the laws while republican and democrats alike robosign them.

I also Remember, The Bush administration being anti republican when he decided to pick the winner and losers of the free market by having the GOP con the republican drones into using tax payers money to bail out private corporations.

I also Remember the Bush Administration, increasing gov't oversight and size by creating the Department of Homeland security.

I also recall , Rubio being anti republican and choosing big gov't oversight over state rights with his push to make it illegal for States to DECIDED if they want to label GMO products.

The jyst is ,both sides are full it , and they both work for the Oligopolies that create the laws in this country. Hence regardless of Obama or a republican administration the same thing would have happened.

If the GOP was so against OBAMACARE and big gov't they wouldn't have picked ROMNEYCARE as their leading candidate to go against Obama. They purposely picked the least likely candidate to beat Obama that not only actually implemented gov't regulated healthcare but also praised it for his state , in order to ensure the Healtcare industry got what they wanted .

Obamacare sucks and ofcourse it was going to make our cost go up, however this is not a democrat issue or republican issue. This is an issue where Corporate Oligopolies (healthcare in this case) created our legislation. However, one has to be very naive to think this is only an issue with Obama or the democrats.

As long as you blame the wrong other guy you will never find or fix the problem.

It honestly amazes me that the USA have fecked up their healthcare system.
Would you have all paid a few cents more in the dollar tax to have something like our NHS?.
In fact gonna make a thread about it.

If there was some sort of cost control would you guys have been for it?

Like telling the insurance companies that they can't hike everyones rates up because they are taking on more people?
Those are more rhetorical because I know the answer. Even thought I see those complaining about the aca say there should have been cost control built in, just not sure they actually believe that.

We are crying out why this is all big bad socialism but to me seems like this is what happens in capitalism.
They are socializing the losses. You are not paying for my doctor visits, you are paying for the CEOs bonuses for not losing profit this year.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Here's the problem:

Not even with the much vaunted "public option" would that have happened. You already have two public options in the market now between Medicare and Medicaid, and those have not done anything to make health care less expensive. They only make it more expensive because the government consistently short-changes what it will pay for care, so everyone else must pay more to compensate.

Basically, also every time you see the government get into a market to "make things more affordable" those markets quickly become less affordable for everyone who could previously afford them. I'll cite the college market for a prime example. The reason for this is because the government has bottomless pockets, and it will always pay. So the entity making the price has NO incentive to hold costs down. Why should they? It's the government's dime. Pretty soon, only the government can pay, and all the other competitors are driven out of the market.

So the government controls all access. Of course, in the case of college, students are basically making themselves government indentures via government college loans ... but that's a different story.

originally posted by: neveroddoreven99
a reply to: interupt42

You do understand that you're the first person mention a GOP vs Dem thing, right? So, really, no one here is more guilty of the accusations you're making than you.

Ok, and?

The point is regardless which party is in control the same things happen.

1. Corporate Oligopolies are the direct benefactors of our laws.
2. Bigger gov't
3. More taxes/fees on the middle class.
4. Less personal individual rights.

I hate to break it to you , but Obama was lying even before he got elected and proved within his first month of inauguration when he stacked up his cabinet with lobbyist.

So what exactly are you trying to prove? That Obama and gov't lies, people know this. The problem is that people are more worried about the other parties dirty laundry than their own parties dirty laundry. Both party have dirty laundry, and the lobbyist pick up their tabs at the laundromat .

Obamacare was created and drafted with the healtcare Oligopoly lobbyist , is it really a surprise that they are the direct benefactor?

BTW look at the party contributions for insurance and hmo, they are neck to neck with often even republicans leading.

www.opensecrets.org...
www.opensecrets.org...

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: peskyhumans

This was always the plan.

Make insurance mandatory.

Insurance companies raise rates because it is now mandatory.

People cannot afford it, so government steps in and creates Single-Payer, thus bringing in government-run, government-controlled, socialized medicine.

In the end, governments will either bail out insurance companies or simply take over the market thus dictating and controlling healthcare in the US.

Imagine TSA now running your healthcare.

And health care that heals as well as our school system educates.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Would you have all paid a few cents more...?

If you think our taxes would only increase that much, you must be really out of touch with your own country's healthcare taxation. That, or totally unaware of how many moochers live in the US.

a reply to: interupt42
1l - Do not blame the party - blame the party officials or leader
2- The Republicans did not choose "Romney Care" that was a state thing , they chose Romney the person as a candidate
3- We are only speaking of ACA and how it has affected people in the US.This is not a "blame Bush" for everything thread.
Do you notice I havent mentioned a party at this time ? Thats the way I roll. Not any of the BS party crap we are subjected to minute by minute.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Here's the problem:

Not even with the much vaunted "public option" would that have happened. You already have two public options in the market now between Medicare and Medicaid, and those have not done anything to make health care less expensive. They only make it more expensive because the government consistently short-changes what it will pay for care, so everyone else must pay more to compensate.

Basically, also every time you see the government get into a market to "make things more affordable" those markets quickly become less affordable for everyone who could previously afford them. I'll cite the college market for a prime example. The reason for this is because the government has bottomless pockets, and it will always pay. So the entity making the price has NO incentive to hold costs down. Why should they? It's the government's dime. Pretty soon, only the government can pay, and all the other competitors are driven out of the market.

So the government controls all access. Of course, in the case of college, students are basically making themselves government indentures via government college loans ... but that's a different story.

In addition, the reason that healthcare is so expensive now is BECAUSE OF GOVERNMENT. If anyone is serious about fixing insurance and having a true free market with lower cost and innovation then two main things need to happen. First, insurance needs to be entirely decoupled from employers. The consumers of health insurance need to be responsible for picking their own plan outside of their employer. This will drive cost down because it encourages the consumer to shop for plans. Second, the barriers to interstate competition for health insurance need to be removed so national companies can compete for consumers nationwide.

Health insurance really should be no different from buying car insurance.

Anytime you introduce a third party payer into a system, you cause inflation of cost. The consumer has to be in control so that there is an incentive for providers to lower cost.

True story, I asked a good friend who is a orthopedic surgeon what he charges for a hip replacement. He didn't know... I asked him point blank if I don't have insurance and want to pay cash, how much would it cost? He didn't know what he charges because insurance pays for it and the pricing differs depending on the policy apparently.

If you want to see the effects of the free market on healthcare, look at how cheap elective surgeries like plastic surgery /lasik, etc has gotten over the years. No insurance so people shop for the combination of best price and service.

a reply to: Sremmos80

If there were cost controls, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The fix to healthcare had 2 options.

1. Meet the needs of the high costs by having government introduce itself into healthcare.

2. Lower healthcare costs so that everyone could afford it, with or without insurance and no help from government.

We all know option 1. was chosen.

a reply to: Gothmog

1l - Do not blame the party - blame the party officials or leader

I blame all the above including the party because there is no accountability. Democrats only blame republicans and vice versa, they don't clean up there own house.

2- The Republicans did not choose "Romney Care" that was a state thing , they chose Romney the person as a candidate

Actually, the GOP selected Romney for you and the MSM made it happen. The individual republicans considered Romney as the "well at least he is not Obama" candidate. Not to many within the republican party cared for him.

Regardless, Romney the person was not a republican , he believed in using tax payers money to benefit private organizations and praised how well gov't mandated romneycare worked for his state.

3- We are only speaking of ACA and how it has affected people in the US.This is not a "blame Bush" for everything thread.
Do you notice I havent mentioned a party at this time ? Thats the way I roll. Not any of the BS party crap we are subjected to minute by minute.

Never blamed Bush, I blamed BOTH party and the system. I only mentioned Bush to demonstrate the hypocrisy and how regardless what party is in control the same issues exists.

Here is the jyst:
1. As long as you blame OBAMA and the democrats for that crappy OBAMCARE regulation nothing will be fixed.

2. As long as you concentrate on trying to fix healthcare and do nothing about the lobbyist influence over congress with both party nothing will be fixed. Its like trying to fix a cut in your finger when you have been shot in the head.

a reply to: beezzer

And cost control would mean profit control.

I agree it would have fixed the issue though

a reply to: Sremmos80

We are crying out why this is all big bad socialism but to me seems like this is what happens in capitalism.

This is not socialism or capitalism, its corporatism.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: beezzer

And cost control would mean profit control.

I agree it would have fixed the issue though

There were many solutions to fix cost issues.

Too numerous to post now, but they were avaliable.

But no-one wanted to listen.