It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Does the U.S. actually support the current Chinese gov't?

page: 1
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 28 2015 @ 01:29 PM
link   
I stuck this in general chit chat as it crosses a few too many forums...(fora?) to cover it.

We've seen the media targeted build-up of small ot non-existent islands in the South China Sea into viable base-potential sites with saber-rattling that it's their turf and stay out.

I'd guess their expansion is a valid move and the U.S. is taking, as far as we know, the least amount of action in response, that being surveillance fights to keep an eye on things. Any less and the U.S. allies in the region would probably freak out..


Yet when one factors in the over-all picture, the overlapping world economy being the biggest, the thought occurred that the U.S. may actually be supporting the current regime in China, or at the least, taking no action that might weaken or even cause that regime to collapse. Pushing that possibility one level further, the U.S. will do nothing, or as little as it can to appease it's allies in the region, to stop China from laying claim to that region of the South China sea,

First, the current oil boom, world-wide, has dropped the cost of crude dramatically. This has hurt the oil producing nations as has been pointed out, but what hasn't been stressed is how it has helped the importers of crude.

I believe the biggest winner in this scenario is China. They import huge amounts of oil and their costs have dropped dramatically. Some newsletters had pointed out that China is the world's largest debtor nation and had overleveraged the economy by basing their loans on a national 15% annual growth rate. Those same newsletters suggest that actually China's economy was the most likely to coolapse, even before the Euro-zone and the U.S. economy!

Allowing China to develop that huge reserve of oil in that sea allows China to stabilize it's supply and hence the world economy also 'stabilizes' as a result.

Any military confrontation with China, even a small, controlled one, likely pushes the world economy beyond any abilty to prevent collapse.
(the Euro-zone also has benifitted mightily from the oil price drop and there's been less hysteria lately about their imminent collapse as well.)

Add in the strengthening U.S. dollar based on it's now expanded oil and gas reserves and things are looking slightly less dire than six short months ago!

Simply put China MUST survive else the rest of the house of cards falls immediately around the world.

So is the U.S. actually an ally of China, at least in the short term?

The only interesting dots that connect to that scenario is the fact that those oil prices, as so often in the past, haven't been driven up by an military action in the ME, nor any consensus to cut production either. (As a side note, this is proof for me that the oil industry, who has suffered the most from these crashed prices, has waning influence is a growing world economy with far more voices that has influence than in the day.)

I know squat, I'm neither well educated nor 'connected'. I do, on occasion, think outside the box and this train of thought intrigued me.

Thoughts?
edit on 28-5-2015 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 28 2015 @ 01:37 PM
link   
"The US" as in its government/corporations? Or its people?

I don't think its people support much any government right now. Our government/corporations, on the other hand, are willing to throw whatever it takes at China to divest it of its value.



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 01:40 PM
link   
The U.S Government do whatever their puppet masters tell them to do, as with most Governments in the Western World.

However, it appears the official stance is that they like the capitalist elements, such as banking and commerce. But, regarding China's attitude towards its people and expansion of its territory, it is against it. Although, up until now it has been words and no action.

Of course China enjoys the banking and commerce elements, but feel that Western standards isn't something to aspire to and have said so on several occasions.

So, China remains communist for the large part, mainly keeping the plebs in their place, whilst a select few get to taste the spoils of a materialistic World.



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 01:47 PM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I suppose I could have said TPTB as much as the U.S. Gov't.

I do not quite understand your other comment though. Could you clarify it for me?



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 01:50 PM
link   
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Ok, I only see a semantical difference in our views of it.

Be it the puppet masters or TPTB within the U.S. Gov't, are they actually in support of the Chinese regime due to the down-side of their collapse?



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 01:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
The U.S Government do whatever their puppet masters tell them to do, as with most Governments in the Western World.

However, it appears the official stance is that they like the capitalist elements, such as banking and commerce. But, regarding China's attitude towards its people and expansion of its territory, it is against it. Although, up until now it has been words and no action.

Of course China enjoys the banking and commerce elements, but feel that Western standards isn't something to aspire to and have said so on several occasions.

So, China remains communist for the large part, mainly keeping the plebs in their place, whilst a select few get to taste the spoils of a materialistic World.


China has not been a communist country since the 70's. In fact, besides some state controlled corporations, China often is closer to no-regulation capitalistic paradise that so many ostensible capitalists and conservatives want.

Most in China are doing everything they can to harness material gain. Often it is far worse than here, with people willing to do ANYTHING to someone not their friend or family member. Even many Chinese people I know say that there is little community and civic consciousness in modern China.

This may be a side effect however of surviving both the Great Leap Forward under Mao (which resulted in tens of millions of deaths) and the Cultural Revolution (which also destroyed many lives and traditional Chinese culture). I wonder if many whom survived either already had the self-serving scheming characteristic or had to develop it.

Side note: While I was reading about the North Korean famine in the 90's, one of the interviewed survivors spoke to this, saying something to the effect "The honest and selfless were the first to die."



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 02:01 PM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

On second thought, I'd guess that the U.S. and some corporations willingly compete and block Chinese moves to gain control of some markets and commodities. That's probably the norm in the 'Game of Thrones.'

That's a lot different then causing that regime to collapse, however.

Like it or not, China is a integral player in the world's economy and that assures it's survival for the short term, methinks.



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 02:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I'm interested in your opinion on my train of thought.

Is it a possibility?



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 02:07 PM
link   
a reply to: nwtrucker

if the Chinese economy collapses, it will be because TPTB have allowed it to happen. There has been a slow down in the Chinese economy, which isn't surprising considering its meteoric rise, but it hasn't collapsed and I don't think it will totally.

TPTB couldn't care less about everyday Chinese folk and that is why whilst they are making all the money, they are willing to support the Chinese Government. Ideally they hope the Chinese Government will change their minds eventually about embracing the Western ways, but it will need reformers inside the Government and there are not many willing to put their head above the parapet currently, it appears.



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 02:12 PM
link   
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

That makes sense to me.

Does that make major war a non-starter? WWII wiped out a massive amount of assets that were controlled by TPTB...



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 02:22 PM
link   
As far as trade, our leaders love it....as long as the Chinese pad their pockets. The elected leaders of ours will sell us down the river for a price. As the most populated country, the value of the average citizen/taxpayer is slightly above zero, exactly where we are headed with uncontrolled illegal immigration. Once the pendulum swings to the other side, America will be what china is now just worse as all cultures and races will fight for top slave. China has the best of both worlds, state run media, and control as it sees fit, and a state controlled free market capitalistic system. We buy a lot of soon landfill garbage out of the box, trading them a broke and stupid America...



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 02:23 PM
link   
a reply to: nwtrucker

I would be more concerned about the situation in the Ukraine if I'm honest and if it does kick off there, then watch what China does.
edit on 28/5/15 by Cobaltic1978 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 02:23 PM
link   
Not sure the US is in a position to object/undermine China in any form or fashion. Given the strong ties between Russia and China the only thing that the US can do is utilize diplomatic/monitoring abilities as use of force is not really an option (unless they want WW3).

China will carry on doing their thing and there is not a lot the west can do about it. I mean, the West can't really afford any sanctions against the biggest economy in the world.

This is something I don't understand. This topic is asking does the US support. The topic should be can the US do anything if it wanted to. The answer is no. China is the worlds largest economy. Its military is tightly controlled, as is the currency and when needed its populace. To even think that the US can afford to cross China in any form is, well, unthinkable.



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 02:31 PM
link   
a reply to: randomspecific not really, the only thing they really have over us is population of disposable people....



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 03:04 PM
link   
a reply to: teslahowitzer

China has a larger economy, greater control over their population, near absolute control of military/industrial complex and greater control of the media. Put all that together and they become a nation that no one can afford to make an enemy of.

Also I laugh at the notion that you think your country thinks of you as anything else but disposable. Ordinary everyday citizens are not really that different. Neither are those that fight/serve for each country.



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 03:10 PM
link   
a reply to: randomspecific

The only point I'd question is the Russian/Chinese unity.

The crash in oil prices have/is crippling Russia and China is benefitting from that. It HAS to be a sore point between the two....



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 03:58 PM
link   
TPTB see us all as disposable puppets, China, US, Russia......we are the ultimate peon...



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 07:15 PM
link   
America's government and its backdoor politicians in their infinite wisdom, are leaning towards China for a $100 billion High-Speed Albatross in California, planning to employ cheap Chinese product generally designed by applying principles of built-in obsolescence.



"China may have edge in race to build California's bullet train."
source: www.reuters.com...


edit on 28-5-2015 by seasoul because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 07:18 PM
link   
a reply to: seasoul
If one still considers Ca. a part of the U.S. that is....



posted on May, 28 2015 @ 07:28 PM
link   
a reply to: nwtrucker

Business is about milking others for your own gain. That is how it works. You can try to do it morally, but in the end wealthy people create their wealth by exploiting situations to their benefit. Another way to put it: If you can turn chicken crap into chicken salad....

US business (of which the US Government is the mafia boss of) seeks to divest capital from others. Economies are finite, and the game is to increase your piece of the pie (aka "market share"). The goal in China: develop new markets, and then monetize your interests in those markets.

If China was only 10% of its current landmass, our goal would be different: topple the government, replace it with a banana republic dictator that is corrupt, then shovel IMF loans at him. In the mob that is known as a "bust out".



new topics

top topics



 
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join