World Education rankings... USA 28th

a reply to: 727Sky

I was thinking somewhere around 50th...impressed actually..but not pleased.

originally posted by: np6888
a reply to: Aazadan

These scores and statistics won't matter if we don't avoid nuclear war. At this point, it's probably better to teach our kids to be respectful of others, regardless of differences, than to worry so much about education.

Teaching respect for others isn't a metric that can be measured on a standardized test so it will never happen. When budgets are involved people like concepts they can quantify and turn into metrics. Besides, even if we have respect for others, that's no guarantee that someone who doesn't have respect for us won't start something. What's going to happen when Putin's successor needs to solidify his position after taking power, and does so by making very serious threats against the west?

Respect is great and has it's place, but you need education too. Despite how my above posts may have sounded I'm not anti education, but I am against the high stress, high memorization, route popular in east Asia. Low pressure environments result in happier people and have similar results.

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
a reply to: 727Sky

I was thinking somewhere around 50th...impressed actually..but not pleased.

No thats your healthcare apprently

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
a reply to: 727Sky

I was thinking somewhere around 50th...impressed actually..but not pleased.

No thats your healthcare apprently

American healthcare? I didn't think there was such a thing as this. Don't you have to pay an an arm & leg over there just to be seen by a doctor?

Those conservative fanatics got that place on lock down.

a reply to: crazyewok


You mean the healthcare that innovates & sets standards for the rest of the world?

Or maybe it's the one with the most noble prizes in medicine?

a reply to: avgguy

Hmm, I'm not sure but I suspect he was referring to the US healthcare system that still leaves millions of it's people suffering without treatment because they cannot afford the medications, doctors fees and such like.

Perhaps if the US education system starts teaching its children more about caring for its fellow citizens then in a generation or two you might have a healthcare system that does not discriminate on how much money a citizen has in the bank.
Until then I'll keep my fingers crossed for the millions of poor and excluded people in your nation.

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: crazyewok


You mean the healthcare that innovates & sets standards for the rest of the world?

Or maybe it's the one with the most noble prizes in medicine?

Then why are you bottom of every healthcate ranking for the developed world?

Sure you have a handful of leading hospital were amazing research is done.....but 99% of you population wont ever step foot in them.

You show your ignorance by having no clue about Medicaid. You know the thing my taxes pay for so the poor can get all medical treatment, medicines and therapies for absolutely free, but costs the tax payers 835 Billion a year.

a reply to: avgguy

Hmm, that is an interesting claim, perhaps it is you who shows ignorance of the true state of play in the US.
NY Times 2014

The number of uninsured Americans fell by about 8 percent to 41 million people in the first quarter of this year,

You do realise that Medicaid is classed as insurance don't you?
Millions of folk are not covered by Medicaid.

Now back on topic, if you didn't know that basic fact then perhaps US schools should improve their teaching of government/politics and social administration. lol

*Edit*
Here you go:
The coverage gap

Nationally, nearly four million poor uninsured adults fall into the “coverage gap” that results from state decisions not to expand Medicaid, meaning their income is above current Medicaid eligibility but below the lower limit for Marketplace premium tax credits.

You still in denial?

a reply to: avgguy

Medicaid is all well and good. But its means tested and in no way could be considered as 'universal healthcare', like the rest of civilized nations have enacted. American conservatives are still allowing there own citizens to die of easily treatable conditions, well they rant on about having good christian values.

Don't get me wrong, I love American society as a whole. But the lack of free healthcare, is a real issue, that needs to be pointed out.

a reply to: grainofsand

First off lets get this straight. What colleges in the UK are even worth mentioning. There's a reason America is the epicenter for higher education, because we're the best at it.

Secondly, 4 million people make too much to qualify for Medicaid so they have to buy private insurance. So what? They can afford to buy it. I don't get why you think that you're entitled to "free" healthcare. It's not free and it's second rate at best. Your "MDs" have far less schooling and even less training than there American counterparts. Not to mention the time it takes to see a specialist in you country is abysmal. So tell me more about your hand me down healthcare and I'll tell you more about how the US leads the field.

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: grainofsand

First off lets get this straight. What colleges in the UK are even worth mentioning.

Cambridge
Oxford
st Andrews
imperial college London
Kings collage

A lot of great doctors and scientists have studied in both both countrys.

a reply to: avgguy

Oh stop being silly now, millions of US citizens are unable to access treatment for basic ailments due to the cost.
How on Earth can you deny that.
Yes there are imperfections in the NHS here in the UK, but nobody has to fill out any forms to prove their treatment costs are covered.
Now tell the truth about the people who cannot access treatment in the US due to cost.
You make yourself look silly by being in such a state of apparent denial.

Back on topic, it is such ignorance that makes me think US schools should educate their children to a deeper understanding of government/politics and social management. How you cannot know that millions of people cannot afford their medicine/treatment in the US is astonishing. Either that or you are just trolling.

a reply to: avgguy

Man, the US do dominate the world when it comes to higher education. But they notoriously score poorly when it comes to quality healthcare.

Its ironic that most Americans believe there healthcare system is so expensive because it's the "best in the world". When the reality is that countries who have free healthcare always score better than them on any list you can find.

US Healthcare ranked dead last compared to 10 other countries

But what would you expect, in a country that has an education system, which is based on brainwashing its citizens into believing there more superior than everyone else?

It's likely we could do better. Three problems I see with education here in the U.S.

1. Funding. Education funds primarily come from property tax. If you're from a low wealth region, it's very likely your school is going to be under-funded and lacking in some resources. If you're in a poor area you're much more likely to have outdated books, worn out desks or equipment, things not repaired/replaced due to vandalism, etc.

2. Accountability. As much good as unions could do in the private sector, they've become explotive in the public sector. That is teachers are almost over-represented in the equation such to the point that they're not held accountable for much. A teacher that doesn't do so well at teaching can remain doing the same for years and see an increase in income simply by waiting it out and getting tenure. Also despite all their complaints, most teachers are paid quite well when compared to the median wages of the communities where their schools are located. There's not much that can be done to get rid of bad teachers or adjust pay in relation to performance.

3. Lack of parental involvement or troubles at home. Kids don't get much support at home. Either they're neglected and allowed to run loose with no discipline, or they're dealing with parents that are fighting each other or abusive. In turn, these kids cause trouble at school and are disruptive to the education of other students. Because of policies like "No child left behind", these kids just can't simply be kicked out of class. There's a whole bureaucratic process. Regardless, most problems with these kids start at home.

Figure a way to fix these three things, and ratings would go up. Also it's true that other countries higher on the list don't have all their school age children in these tests. Either they don't make it into school in the first place, or their disciplinary schools just aren't counted in this testing. If they counted everybody, the rankings would likely shift around a bit. (But I doubt the U.S. would make it near the top even with that, just because the way things are done here.)

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: stumason

Inability to see the actual facts of the situation is why the British Empire is subservient to the U.S. That post was meant to expose the reason for much of the anger against the US it's called envy, the green eyed monster.

I thought your post was trying to demonstrate gluttony, pride, and wastefulness?
Envy...didn't notice that one...

For what it's worth when it comes to these rankings, many countries take these much more seriously than the USA.

From my own limited observations in other countries I've been to (Japan, Germany, etc), some Grade school teachers will base their whole curricula around these 'international ranking tests' and may even have students take the test multiple times to ensure higher scores.

A lot of countries seem to stress the importance of these tests similar to how the USA places emphasis scoring high on the ACT/SAT. Although obviously for different reasons, national pride vs personal achievement.

By the way first time poster long time lurker. Always enjoy the conversations on this forum.

a reply to: Aazadan

Florida adopted the new standards this year (14-15), which was a good move in my opinion (at least for Language Arts), but I hear that our state test results won't be back until December. My students told me that the test was surprisingly easy, but they might be overconfident.

To answer your other question, I think Florida's education problem is mostly cultural. Education simply is not valued in the same way as it is in the Northeast US, so changing standards and dumping money into education probably won't solve the problem. Florida will need a lot of social engineering to catch up to New England's education systems.

There is also a strong push for privatizing education in Florida, but Florida's Supreme Court has ruled it unconstitutional. I predict that the test scores will be used to make invalid inferences about Florida's public schools, and this will generate public support for a constitutional amendment to allow privatization of education.

a reply to: KnightLight

It contributed. Separation of church and state was when the state started to think it needed to get involved in marriage and family and more or less play god with people. No fault divorce and the War on Poverty - things previously left to the church and the community - mark the beginning of the real breakdown in social fabric. People divorced at staggering rates and the state stepped in and become daddy because the welfare system perversely rewards you for not having a two-parent household.

The social decline goes hand-in-hand with the educational decline. Parents don't take steps to instill values in their children because they have none themselves. Education loses its value; the state provides.

You can also mark the decline in education with the institution of the federal Dept. of Ed.

So between the state interference in marriage and family and the state interference in education, you can mark a steady erosion of the educated public. You can't separate the two. A good school can't educate a child who hasn't been brought up at home to value education, and a child who values education won't be educated well in a crappy school. And when you combine the two - children who do not value education in crappy schools - you see many of our urban inner city areas.

a reply to: Greathouse

why the British Empire is subservient to the U.S.

Haha...that's what you've led yourself to believe. Your reality is coloured through your over indulgence of 1 1/2 inch rib eyes.
What do you mean by subservient. I think its the other way around. Didn't your president bow to the Queen of England and the Pope?