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originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Nice breakdown of the song.
I'm pretty sure John Lennon was a spiritual atheist (going off of clues), and not a practitioner of any one faith. I don't think you were commenting on any affiliation he may have had though, just picking up on some parallels. I definitely agree it's not a song for the elite. People who claim that don't really know John Lennon or his music imo.
Lennon's mother, Julia, remarried, but visited him and Mimi regularly. She taught Lennon how to play the banjo and the piano and purchased his first guitar. Lennon was devastated when Julia was fatally struck by a car driven by an off-duty police officer in July 1958. Her death was one of the most traumatic events in his life.
originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: WarminIndy
Do you really believe he had intent to lead people away from God with this song? While intentionally absolving himself from guilt for doing so?
If I understood your post correctly, I couldn't disagree more.
Anyway, there is another song he wrote where he says his opinion more clearly. "God is a concept by which we measure our pain". He goes on to list of bunch of things he doesn't believe in, which include Jesus and the Bible.
So while he may have tried to open the minds of people in his music, I don't think he ever meant to lead people away from God in some devilish way like you've implied.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: WarminIndy
I think he assumed that people would start off imagining Earth/Nature and then no Heaven above or Hell below us, since The Kingdom would be manifested on Earth as in Heaven so it would already be One...
but I admit that's my interpretation so let's look at the lyrics to see if he's secretly talking about imagining hell on Earth instead of below us. He says,
"Imagine all the people living life in peace"
That wouldn't be hell if all the people had Life and Peace (because that comes from The Spirit). How would this peace be achieved, though?
"No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man "
Not letting people starve to death through other people's greed, but everyone loving their neighbour as themselves ("a brotherhood of man").
originally posted by: tridentblue
a reply to: arpgme
I think John Lennon would be pleased if his spirit read this thread, people finding meanings for his music. Artists are multi-dimensional beings, they have a lot of sides and it all goes into their art. But at the same time, you guys are missing a big chunk of history if you don't think that song is pretty deeply tied to communism. Ask your average evangelical if they will be able to own a home in heaven, and they will say yes. The communist vision of Utopia is pretty singular in that there is no personal property, no possessions, no religion, like the song describes.
At some point you have to ask what people like the Viet Cong were fighting and dying for at that time. It wasn't Soviet oppression, it was the vision of the possibility of Communism presented in that song. It was the same vision and spirit that was behind the construction of the Moscow subway, the light that made communism take over half the world before the corruption destroyed it. If it was the pure rot America described it as it would collapse much sooner. Empathy is a powerful tool for understanding history, and it pays to ask what our enemies - the ones in the trenches, not the corrupt ones one top - were actually fighting for in their minds.
The concept of positive prayer ... If you can imagine a world at peace, with no denominations of religion—not without religion but without this my God-is-bigger-than-your-God thing—then it can be true ... the World Church called me once and asked, "Can we use the lyrics to 'Imagine' and just change it to 'Imagine one religion'?" That showed [me] they didn't understand it at all. It would defeat the whole purpose of the song, the whole idea.[1
originally posted by: WarminIndy
What kind of peace did he have?
He had plenty of money, he had plenty of food, he took drugs, he drank, he searched wisdom from the Yogi, he looked everywhere except one place, and that was Christianity.
He didn't die in peace. He had money, fame, fortune, excess....everything the world says you need, but that would make him a hypocrite if he said you need to not live with greed but then he himself urinated onto the heads of nuns who had no money and were feeding the poor.
Imagine John Lennon giving up all his money to feed the poor, did he?
He mocked the nuns, in the most vile way, and then asks one to imagine there is no heaven. I don't think even you could possibly even fathom doing such a thing, it's beyond just mocking. Even though we disagree on ATS, at least we don't feel compelled to do such things to other people.