NEWS: Mom Sues Wal-Mart Over Daughters Shotgun Suicide

I agree that Walmart is not at fault here, but I also see a trend from some of the same people that always speak against the government controlling us more....

How is it that businesses allow people with mental illnesses to buy guns? simply, because they do not have our medical records.....do you want businesses, our jobs etc to have our medical records so that problems like these are stopped or in case she would have gone psychotic at work and killed someone else?..... It would sure stop a lot of violence, but we would allow everyone to have a look at our medical records at any time..... To me it wouldn't matter since I don't have any problems luckily, but I do have a problem with my medical records being public knowledge at any time. None of us would have any privacy at all.

I am afraid that what her parents did can bite us back if the lawsuit goes through and they win...


[edit on 22-12-2004 by Muaddib]

A couple of things came to mind while reading this story:

First, the woman used the gun to kill herself, not another individual. If she had bought the gun then turned around and used it to kill someone else, I MIGHT see a valid argument, if not for a couple of factors:

1. The girl's meds were filled at and her arrest for attacking another WAL-MART customer occured at a different store than the one where she bought the gun, 7 miles away.

2. WAL-MART ran a background check on her before selling her the gun, as is required, and she came back clear. They had no reason not to sell her the gun.

Mental health records, that do not involve the courts, are confidential for good reason. A record showing that you are taking a psych drug, only shows what drug it is, not what diagnosis the patient taking it has been given. Did you know that the anti-depressant drug Wellbutrin, is also taken to help people stop smoking? And that is just one example out of thousands, illustrating how knowing what drug someone is taking, isn't the same as knowing why they are taking it.

What I don't understand, is how it didn't come back on her records check that she had been involuntarily institutionalized five times (twice, under court order):

Would-be buyers must fill out a form that asks about mental health. Stewart, who had been involuntarily committed to an institution and declared dangerously mentally ill by a judge, lied on that form, according to her mother's attorney's office. Wal-Mart ran a background check anyway, as required by federal law.

Someone dropped the ball on this girl, but it wasn't WAL-MART. They are just an obvious target.

Originally posted by Byrd
Actually, folks, the gun retailers are supposed to do a background check. If a person has a history of psychiatric illness or a prison record, they are NOT supposed to sell firearms to them.

(unless they repealed that law...)

That was my understanding also.

It is obvious that stricter gun laws and checks are needed. Background checks are a necessity along with licenses to carry certain types of gun. People with known illnesses that may cause violence to oneself or another should not be allowed to have guns. Yes I have read the comments about one can kill oneself with almost anything, but that does not change my mind. Guns are made for one thing, to kill.

i don't think you can personaly blame wal-mart because wal-mart didn't do anything wrong. they sold a gun to a person that was old enough to purchase it. the only thing wrong here is the law and the fact that someone can go in to shop like wal-mart and purchase a shotgun. not just a little pistol...but a shotgun. i just thinks that's wrong, there should be certain places to get buy a gun from and i don't think wal-mart should be one of them. this is not the first time a shop like wal-mart has sold a gun to someone that the intentions were not good. k-mart sold the guns to the kids who shot up columbine. not just a couple but lots, and lots of ammo aswel. america sells guns like its handing out candy. they need some gun control and they need it now. i also think if k-mart and wal-mart sell guns then there should be some sort of process that takes in to every account of that person. the gun was intended for one purpose...to kill.

The point is that sad as it is,the girl was Ill ,and would have found some other way to ease her pain.But I think you shuould get rid of guns, like my country Scotland.More people die of gunshot wounds every year than in youre average war ,elsrwhere in the world.To quote"The only thing we have to fear ,is fear itself".And please don,t come back with guns dont kill people,people do ,remember guns have only been in soceity for a couple hundred years ,of human history time to end the experiment we,ve proved we can,t be trusted.

Originally posted by Kriz_4
...................
Yes I have read the comments about one can kill oneself with almost anything, but that does not change my mind. Guns are made for one thing, to kill.

They are not made to kill...people can be trained to kill, and without proper knowledge on how to use them you can kill someone or injure/kill yourself. You can use guns for self defense, aslong as you have a concealed weapon permit or if you have it in your car's glove compartment, etc, etc.

Even if there were all sorts of laws that stopped anyone with any kind of mental illness from acquaring a weapon, or even if for some strange reason a law could be passed that would stop anyone that wanted to buy a gun to kill for whatever reason, these people would be able to get their hands on guns illegally.

Criminals don't go to walmart, or to your gun store or a gun show to buy guns.....they go to the black market...and no law is going to stop the black market, so the only thing more laws will do is stop good citizens from buying, or owning a gun.


[edit on 22-12-2004 by Muaddib]

So what are you saying guns were designed and made for then? Toasting marshmallows?

Stricter laws and licenses to carry guns are needed. The right to hold license should be reviewed yearly, mental health should be considered when handing out licenses.

This will decrease the amount of incidents, NOT stop them completely.

[edit on 22-12-2004 by Kriz_4]

Originally posted by Byrd
Actually, folks, the gun retailers are supposed to do a background check. If a person has a history of psychiatric illness or a prison record, they are NOT supposed to sell firearms to them.

(unless they repealed that law...)

Uuuuuh...bein's I've bought a couple of guns in the past five years and so have had to fill out more than one background check, I don't remember anywhere on the form it asking me if I'd been nuts anytime in my life. Furthermore, think about it, there is absolutely no way for this to be checked. Especially now with the very stringent HIPPA laws in place.

No, this isn't logical and I don't remember anything like this. The criminal check is supposed to be done (but not by the retailer - the form is submitted by the retailer to the government agencies and the retailer does not wait for it to clear - not on shotguns or rifles). The "waiting period" is on handguns. So if you go to buy a shotgun or a rifle, you simply walk out with it (unless my short-term memory problems are getting the better of me, because I don't remember having to wait either time prior to walking out with the rifle), but the form is filled out and submitted by the retailer to the government...now, beats me what happens once the government gets it and finds out you have a criminal record...I mean, if you're a criminal are you going to give your address??? Maybe there was something that happened in the store that I wasn't paying attention to...i.e. my SSN entered into the system or something and the check was instantaneous...hmmm, this is all very confusing. But confusion aside, if you're going to take a SHOTGUN and kill yourself - you're hell-bent (and apparently willing to do it the hardway) on killing yourself...more power to ya.

[edit on 12-22-2004 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Kriz_4
So what are you saying guns were designed and made for then? Toasting marshmallows?
....................

I am saying guns are also made for self defense, not for killing, but yes, any weapon can kill.

Buying a gun doesn't assure that you are going to kill someone. I do agree with the background check that is effective at the moment, but there is no way that any laws will stop mentally ill people from buying guns and using them to kill.....

Mentally ill people can go about their life with no sign of mental illness and one day for any reason they can go postal, buy a gun and pass any and all background checks and use the weapon to kill others or themselves. How many times have we heard in the news about some person that was thought by all to be a good person, etc and then for some reason they killed?......

BTW what you mentioned will not decrease crimes done with guns or riffles, it will make those people that want to buy these weapon do so in the black market.

[edit on 22-12-2004 by Muaddib]

Obviously, the mother knows she won't win such a suit, she (and her lawyer) are looking for the retailer to settle, as in most cases, the settlement will probably be less than the lawyer fees Wal-Mart would pay for a full blown lawsuit to term. However, in this case, Wal-Mart is likely to go the distance with this, just to avoid setting the precedent.

Personally, the very idea that such a suit wouldn't be quickly thrown out by a judge is sad. Any judge worth his salt should simply reiterate what's been said here.

Originally posted by Muaddib
It would sure stop a lot of violence, but we would allow everyone to have a look at our medical records at any time..... To me it wouldn't matter since I don't have any problems luckily, but I do have a problem with my medical records being public knowledge at any time. None of us would have any privacy at all.

errr...not so and unneccessary. If someone is diagnosed with a form of mental illness the doctor should make the appropriate phone calls to 'blacklist' that individual from being able to buy a gun. No specifics, no medical records, why do the gun retailers need to see what form of mental illness you've got? Or better yet, be given a reason at all?

Only if the 'blacklisted' one wishes to oppose it should the doctor reveal the condition, and this would be done in court between the two...I don't see how the gun retailers become involved here...or your medical records?

They are not made to kill

errr...sure...I use mine to clip my toe nails every night, what idiot said they weren't built for the purpose of killing? A gun is a weapon bud, whether used for defence or for attack it's supposed to kill/injure.

So...if you go through a period of clinical depression, say, in your teens, and come out of it and lead a normal life otherwise and say on your 40th birthday you want to get a hunting rifle and go out with the boys...you're saying a doctor should have reported you to a blacklist when you were a teenager and removed this right for the rest of your life???



I don't think so.

Originally posted by Muaddib
I am saying guns are also made for self defense, not for killing, but yes, any weapon can kill.

Actually they're made for both attack and defence but regardless it the same difference, the result is always the same.

Mentally ill people can go about their life with no sign of mental illness and one day for any reason they can go postal, buy a gun and pass any and all background checks and use the weapon to kill others or themselves.

That's absolutely right, but if a doctor sees that a patient of theirs is blatantly...say...schizophrenic, then something should be done to ensure this person cannot gain access to a powerful weapon such as a gun so easily. Of course you can't keep tabs on everyone who has mental illnesses (in fact most people are nuts in some way or another), but if someone his a mental disorder which can likely lead to violence against themselves or others...and a doctor knows about it...then something should be done about it.

Originally posted by Valhall
So...if you go through a period of clinical depression, say, in your teens, and come out of it and lead a normal life otherwise and say on your 40th birthday you want to get a hunting rifle and go out with the boys...you're saying a doctor should have reported you to a blacklist when you were a teenager and removed this right for the rest of your life???

I don't think so.

If you are no longer suffering from any mental illness, then you could be taken off the list. This kind of safe guarding makes so much sense.

Originally posted by Valhall
you're saying a doctor should have reported you to a blacklist when you were a teenager and removed this right for the rest of your life?

hmmm...where did I say rest of their life? If the person in question is cured/better then it is the doctor that makes this decision, so obviously the same doctor will make the appropriate calls yet again to see that the 'blacklist' is lifted. It's not complicated Val.
It's just a temporary fix whilst that person might be a danger to themselves or others, not a punishment.

Maybe we need a doctor's note to get a gun...of course, that would let all the pathological liars and symptom-maskers to slip through the cracks, but hey!

Originally posted by John Nada
................
errr...sure...I use mine to clip my toe nails every night, what idiot said they weren't built for the purpose of killing? A gun is a weapon bud, whether used for defence or for attack it's supposed to kill/injure.

Do you use yours to kill someone every night?.....have you killed anyone?.....do you know that many criminals would not even consider attacking you just by seeing that you have a gun?......they would run like rabbits, unless they also have a gun and would use it...

So, you have a gun...how many people have you killed?......

You also know that you don't have to kill someone to stop them don't you?.....

BTW NADA keep your petty insults out.....

Show me proof that every person that has been shot by a gun has died.....

You shoot someone in the arm, in the leg or in some areas of the body with no major organs they don't die unless they are not taken to a hospital....

[edit on 22-12-2004 by Muaddib]

That starts a dangerous, slippery slope, don't you think?

Just curious though, what kind of moron spends about a $100 on a shotgun to kill themselves (I'm assuming she charged it though?)...when a bottle of Vodka and a box of sleeping pills is much cheaper (not to mention less messy, and a lot more pleasant way to go....)???

I've never understood those who killed themselves in painful/messy ways....

People amaze me every day with their ignorance. Like some of you said before. She was over 21, she had the right to buy an gun. The phrmancy cant go running around and slapping people on the wrists who buy potentially lethal objects, because that person filled their mediciation there. That was illegal. call me crazy but it is... Sueing Wal-Mart for her psycho-nut job daughters death "is like sueing Hustler magazine for giving me carpal tunnel syndrome..." (Quotations are words of Larry the Cable Guy.) Hey mother sounds like she needs to see a few shrinks, and think of a better way to scam some company out of a million or two.

Originally posted by Valhall
Maybe we need a doctor's note to get a gun...of course, that would let all the pathological liars and symptom-maskers to slip through the cracks, but hey!

errr...are you making this up as you go along? Are you not quite getting me here?

Who said anything about everyone needing a doctors note to buy a gun? If a doctor has a patient who is diagnosed schizophrenic that person should NOT be buying a gun, nor should they be allowed to. In this instance the doctor will make the appropriate call to 'blacklist' this individual from being able to get one until such time they are deemed cured.

It's an extreme measure ensure that someone who obviously (unless you're out of your mind) should not have a gun should not get one...not a "everyone needs a doctors approval before getting a gun". This isn't complicated and really couldn't be put any clearer, so where you got that I don't know...or maybe you should stop trying to put words into my mouth.