It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
If you or your group have astral projected? What kind of physical manifestation in the body different tools/behaviors/ritual give you?
originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: grandmakdw
Churches that are not affiliated with denominations often have ministers with no training at all. Sometimes Bible College, sometimes no college degree at all. A very few denominations do not have formally trained ministers; Mormon, sometimes Church of Christ, some Baptist. If a church is not affiliated with a denomination then you have to check with the minister. Some even didn't finish high school. This is unfortunate but only the established denominations require a Masters Degree and normally a year or two of on the job training. Non-affiliated churches can have someone who just announces one day, "i"m a preacher". That is normally where the loonies come from, the "pastors" who preach unlovely and unloving things.
This is one area I'll agree with you on. I wasn't a pastor, but I did preach and teach. I was fortunate enough as an elder to have a very sharp pastor(degreed) who scrutinized every word that came from the pulpit, and shared pointers and advice with me. I remember thinking back then, with some of the mistakes I made, that I wasn't ready in the beginning, and I probably shouldn't have been allowed to preach to a congregation til I was. Fortunately, I didn't make any big mistakes, and I was well studied by that time. But I think some formal schooling wouldn't have hurt by any means.
Well, at least they have a psychology degree and/or marriage counselling training, which makes them appear to know what they are doing.
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: InTheLight
Well, at least they have a psychology degree and/or marriage counselling training, which makes them appear to know what they are doing.
Who have those degrees? The priests and preachers? Where did they get that training?
I'm really glad you're here, InTheLight. So - do you trust that religious leaders know what they are talking about (or doing) when they use psychology and/or marriage counseling training?
How can one advise others on that which one has no real life experience (referring to Catholic leaders)?
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: InTheLight
How can one advise others on that which one has no real life experience (referring to Catholic leaders)?
I have that same concern! How can someone who has never been married counsel couples who intend to be (or are already) married? Or someone who has never been divorced counsel people amidst a divorce? How can they advise on parenting issues if they've never parented?
If they have no real-life experience, they really don't "know", in my opinion. But you couple real-life experience with learning/study and open-minded willingness to learn more, and you get people who are capable.
Do you agree with that?
That experience - direct experience - AND knowledge acquired from that experience AND combined with training in psychology/parenting, etc is valuable?
Though there is still some debate on the dates of when the gospels were written, they were most assuredly completed before the close of the first century and written by eyewitnesses or under the direction of eyewitnesses.
I also pose the question as to why are the gospels of Thomas and Mary not included in the Bible, when there is much debate on who wrote and when the Bible's existing gospels were actually written.
So, you see, BuzzyWigs, for me it is not so much important as to what would be these religious leaders' book learning, but rather their life experiences, critical thinking, reasoning, and to invite and argue intellectual/theological challenges for greater understanding and exploration by all, and by using all these tools, then I believe that these rare people can preach from the pulpit in a more meaningful way.
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw
Churches that are not affiliated with denominations often have ministers with no training at all. Sometimes Bible College, sometimes no college degree at all. A very few denominations do not have formally trained ministers; Mormon, sometimes Church of Christ, some Baptist. If a church is not affiliated with a denomination then you have to check with the minister. Some even didn't finish high school. This is unfortunate but only the established denominations require a Masters Degree and normally a year or two of on the job training. Non-affiliated churches can have someone who just announces one day, "i"m a preacher". That is normally where the loonies come from, the "pastors" who preach unlovely and unloving things.
BINGO!
Exactly right.
Some don't even finish High School. Some get advanced degrees in their field.
I'm trying to learn how to tell them apart.
The ones who are professionally and ethically trained, versus those who just wake up one day and announce they are "a preacher."
What do you think of this phenomenon? Is it "okay"? Or is it not?
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: InTheLight
How can one advise others on that which one has no real life experience (referring to Catholic leaders)?
I have that same concern! How can someone who has never been married counsel couples who intend to be (or are already) married? Or someone who has never been divorced counsel people amidst a divorce? How can they advise on parenting issues if they've never parented?
If they have no real-life experience, they really don't "know", in my opinion. But you couple real-life experience with learning/study and open-minded willingness to learn more, and you get people who are capable.
Do you agree with that?
That experience - direct experience - AND knowledge acquired from that experience AND combined with training in psychology/parenting, etc is valuable?
If a church is with a recognized denomination, aside from Mormon, some Baptist, Church of Christ and Pentacostal, then most likely the pastor is very highly educated.
The people who wake up one day and announce they are preachers, are sometimes wonderful people, but can do great harm with their off the wall theology.
It is not for me to judge, ok or not ok, it is up to the congregation who follow him/her. It is their choice, not mine.
That is what training in counseling is for, to learn how to counsel without having to experience the dysfunction for yourself.
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw
If a church is with a recognized denomination, aside from Mormon, some Baptist, Church of Christ and Pentacostal, then most likely the pastor is very highly educated.
We would hope so.
The people who wake up one day and announce they are preachers, are sometimes wonderful people, but can do great harm with their off the wall theology.
Quite right. Totally agree with that.
It is not for me to judge, ok or not ok, it is up to the congregation who follow him/her. It is their choice, not mine.
But what if the congregation is not aware of their leader's training (or lack thereof)? What if the congretation just blindly follows that person because the person is 'charismatic'?
And what if that person insists that they need a really expensive private jet? Are those followers being misled? I think so.
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw
That is what training in counseling is for, to learn how to counsel without having to experience the dysfunction for yourself.
Yes, it is what training is for - but I happen to believe that unless someone has actually "lived" it, they aren't truly aware of what is going on. Those who have experienced (and hopefully overcome) the dysfunction are more able to counsel than those who have only "book learning" are able to do.
ETA: Again, thanks for participating here. It really means a lot to me.
The training that licensed counselors go through is to prepare them for counseling in situations they have not experienced.
If you have had bad experiences with counselors, well, there are counselors who are not suited personality wise to be counselors, so change counselors.
Issues a pastor is good for: grief, religious uncertainty and searching, non-abuse marital problems, mild depression, something you just need to talk out with someone
Issues a pastor is the wrong person to go to for: abusive situations, drugs, alcohol, psychiatric issues, severe depression, PTSD, sexual problems, severe child rearing issues
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Klassified
I was fortunate enough as an elder to have a very sharp pastor(degreed) who scrutinized every word that came from the pulpit, and shared pointers and advice with me. I remember thinking back then, with some of the mistakes I made, that I wasn't ready in the beginning, and I probably shouldn't have been allowed to preach to a congregation til I was. Fortunately, I didn't make any big mistakes, and I was well studied by that time. But I think some formal schooling wouldn't have hurt by any means.
Thanks so much for contributing, Klassified. I'd hoped you would.
So, do you mind if I ask where your adviser was schooled? Did he talk about religious training?? I'm quite happy to hear that he was helping you out.
I hope you are able to handle the empath ability and that you are not overwhelmed by it. .
New Age "woo", you know. We get ridiculed.