Feminists request use of "jazz hands" rather than clapping to avoid triggering "anxiety" [OP UPD

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: InTheLight

THEY need to adapt and get over their inabilities in order to survive in the real world.
Enough of coddling P.C. overgrown CHILDREN.

Just like all those veterans with PTSD need to adapt and get over their shell shock?

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: daftpink

When one small demographic starts demanding special treatment it breeds dissension in the ranks. 'Affirmative action' breeds racism/sexism because when jobs and promotions are given to less qualified minorities, they are inherently being taken away from possibly more qualified majority folks. Thereby CREATING resentment.

And you say it's just one meeting? Then others see they can start making similar demands and it quickly snowballs.

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of the 'special snowflake' society. Where people make an effort to be offended at every turn. Where everyone feels they have the right to make special requests like this and get butt hurt if they don't get their way.

If clapping makes you nervous DON'T GO TO AN EVENT WHERE CLAPPING WILL BE HAPPENING! Or, as one PP suggested, sit by an exit. I tried to go to church with a friend this past weekend, just to make THEM happy. Sure enough it was too crowded and loud. I high tailed it out of there and then came back for the sermon. I didn't walk up into this huge church and tell them 'I have PTSD and you need to turn off all the amplifiers and not do music this week.'

These 'similar demands' are part and parcel of society and have been ever since we recognised that people with conditions such as anxiety, autism, disabilities have the right to participate in things just like anyone else. The 'special snowflake' society you talk of is a society that has since recovered from the discrimination, abuse/denial of rights for people with these conditions. That is why we made the laws to protect these rights. And here you are denouncing we go back to the past. Huh?

I really don't understand why people are getting so angry.

A HUGE part of my job is upholding the rights of the students that I support at University and College. Most have autism (as we are an autism specialist service) but many have visual impairments, hearing impairments, learning disabilities etc. MANY have anxiety issues related to their conditions. Just making it to a lecture and enduring a room full of people is a challenge for some but they do everything they can to succeed and should not be told to go sit at home if they can't cope. Your judgments against the people in this meeting apply to anyone who is just trying to lead as normal a life as possible. People who hate on these individuals mystify me.

No one will probably bother to read this link but this is part of a legal contract I have with my employer. The rights of individuals must be upheld and as part of my job I'm responsible for upholding them. www.nationalcarestandards.org...
The people at this meeting could very likely have autism, an anxiety disorder, PTSD or a learning disability and you have no right to tell them not to attend this meeting because loud clapping triggers anxiety.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: mahatche

They could hire a clown to make a balloon animal every time the speaker said something clap-worthy. Would that make you feel better than jazz hands?

"Shhhhh....no clapping. We wouldn't want to scare anyone. Muah ha ha."

Animal balloons would make a perfect replacement. Maybe a mime who silently acts out excitement.

What in the WORLD are we actually talking about?

LSE SU women's officer Gee Linford-Grayson agreed: "As someone who is new to the NUS conference culture it surprised me at first, but actually within a few rounds of jazz hands applause it began to make a lot of sense, as loud clapping and whooping can be intimidating and distracting when you're speaking on stage.

"Plus who doesn't like jazz hands?!"

The annual event decides the female issues for the NUS to campaign on, and elects the campaign's representatives.
A spokesperson for NUS said: "The request was made by some delegates attending the conference. We strive to make NUS events accessible and enjoyable for all, so each request is considered."

BBC News

This was a REQUEST made by some DELEGATES at a CONFERENCE that was CONSIDERED AND APPROVED by the conference's ADMINSTRATION.

What is the big dang deal???

Why is this being blown up into the stratosphere?

The event, as I understand it is over. Done.

Those of you who just can't bear to let other people make decisions in their life need to get over it. This has NOTHING to do with you.

If the trend does indeed catch on, and municipalities start passing "Jazz Hand Laws" then you'll have plenty of time to screech about the sky falling.

At this point, it's a few students at their own meeting making their own decisions about how the meeting will run.

Holey Moley.

This thread really highlights the infantile view society has on mental illness. To the people complaining it is just a problem to get over. Yet some of those same people have mental problems of their own and should know that it isn't as simple as "just getting over it". Mental illnesses, unlike most physical ailments, are with you for the rest of your life. And learning to cope with the illness can be different for everyone.

For shame at the people using their own experiences with mental illness to talk down on these people like they somehow understand what those women went through to have those anxiety problems. This whole thread is an exercise in juvenile antics and shows that most don't understand mental illness at all. By targeting feminism, this thread was derailed from the real issue from the beginning.

a reply to: InTheLight

Adding a wheelchair ramp so that someone unable to walk up stairs can physically attend...is EQUALITY.

1 person telling 100 others not to clap is one person's 'rights' trumping the 'rights' of the 100....not equality, not even accommodation, just plain spoiled and selfish.

And I am so severely crippled by PTSD/Anxiety/Agoraphobia that I hardly ever leave the house. So don't picture some ignorant, callous person just spewing anti-disabled dribble. I would NEVER use the guise of my disability to trample on someone else's completely reasonable rights. And other disabled persons should have the same consideration for OTHERS.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Exactly. It's became a thread to hate on feminists and now people with anxiety issues.

originally posted by: Gryphon66


LSE SU women's officer Gee Linford-Grayson agreed: "As someone who is new to the NUS conference culture it surprised me at first, but actually within a few rounds of jazz hands applause it began to make a lot of sense, as loud clapping and whooping can be intimidating and distracting when you're speaking on stage.

"Plus who doesn't like jazz hands?!"

The annual event decides the female issues for the NUS to campaign on, and elects the campaign's representatives.
A spokesperson for NUS said: "The request was made by some delegates attending the conference. We strive to make NUS events accessible and enjoyable for all, so each request is considered."


BBC News

that quote is exactly what I feared. Who doesn't love jazz hands? oh my god, it's the start of the tidal wave. it's Operation Jazz hand normalcy. Robot apocalypse can't come soon enough!

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I know we're not supposed to post kudos, but I'll risk it:

KUDOS TO YOU!

and just for some in this thread

/JAZZHANDSTOTHEMAX

originally posted by: InTheLight
Here is some interesting information for those what wish to deny ignorance.

www.mirecc.va.gov...

Nice little pdf, but where does the idea that everyone with anxiety has PTSD come from? Heck, according to that pdf, I more than likely have medium to severe PTSD. I've been through several majorly traumatic events.
What I'm saying is that I'm not quite sure I follow what you're trying to say with that.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: InTheLight

Adding a wheelchair ramp so that someone unable to walk up stairs can physically attend...is EQUALITY.

1 person telling 100 others not to clap is one person's 'rights' trumping the 'rights' of the 100....not equality, not even accommodation, just plain spoiled and selfish.

And I am so severely crippled by PTSD/Anxiety/Agoraphobia that I hardly ever leave the house. So don't picture some ignorant, callous person just spewing anti-disabled dribble. I would NEVER use the guise of my disability to trample on someone else's completely reasonable rights. And other disabled persons should have the same consideration for OTHERS.

If you choose to not attempt to go out into society that is your choice, but for those that are disabled and wish to expand their knowledge and perhaps face their fears, then I believe it only fair and equitable that we should accommodate them...help them.

originally posted by: daftpink
a reply to: Gryphon66

Exactly. It's became a thread to hate on feminists and now people with anxiety issues.

Besides the obvious trolls, who's hating on feminists? Or people suffering from anxiety?

originally posted by: pfishy

originally posted by: InTheLight
Here is some interesting information for those what wish to deny ignorance.

www.mirecc.va.gov...

Nice little pdf, but where does the idea that everyone with anxiety has PTSD come from? Heck, according to that pdf, I more than likely have medium to severe PTSD. I've been through several majorly traumatic events.
What I'm saying is that I'm not quite sure I follow what you're trying to say with that.

For me, that .pdf speaks to how little we know about anxiety and PTSD in the student population and that directly speaks to this thread topic.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: pfishy

originally posted by: InTheLight
Here is some interesting information for those what wish to deny ignorance.

www.mirecc.va.gov...

Nice little pdf, but where does the idea that everyone with anxiety has PTSD come from? Heck, according to that pdf, I more than likely have medium to severe PTSD. I've been through several majorly traumatic events.
What I'm saying is that I'm not quite sure I follow what you're trying to say with that.

For me, that .pdf speaks to how little we know about anxiety and PTSD in the student population and that directly speaks to this thread topic.

Ah, gotcha. Although it is addressing anxiety specifically related to PTSD. But there's really no point in splitting hairs.

a reply to: daftpink

First, for the record, I'm not angry or hating feminists or the disabled. I just enjoy a good debate!

Second, I totally agree that as a society we've come a long way. And there's still a long way to go. 100 years ago I would be locked up in an institution because of my illness. Now safety nets such as Social Security allow me to live in the comfort of my own home. People still discriminate and are still ignorant, but it's slowly getting better.

At my daughter's school, they integrate children with Down Syndrome into the regular classroom and they just blossom. Again, 100 years ago they'd be locked up in an institution.

But it is very possible for the pendulum to swing too far the other way. Other people shouldn't have to walk on eggshells under the pretense of 'accommodation'.

What if I had a severe and uncontrollable phobia of the color red? Are you saying that it would be totally prudent of me to go around and 'request' that other people not wear red? Or drive red cars? Or carry purses or backpacks that are totally red, or mostly red? And anyone who refuses to accommodate me are just hate filled, close minded, anti-disability a-holes?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Krazysh0t


/JAZZHANDSTOTHEMAX

lol, you have every right to embarrass yourself, but you can't make me join in.

I'll die before I jazz hand. Isn't there a rule against Jazz hands in the bible? I know It has been scientifically proven that Jazz Hands cause depression.

And what happens when a person with PTSD sees flashy twirling fingers and limbs and freaks out? You know it's inevitable, so what do we move to after Jazz hands? This is a poorly thought out approach to helping these people. Using jazz hands is like stacking one mental illness on top of another.

originally posted by: pfishy

originally posted by: daftpink
a reply to: Gryphon66

Exactly. It's became a thread to hate on feminists and now people with anxiety issues.

Besides the obvious trolls, who's hating on feminists? Or people suffering from anxiety?

It more or less started as a thread to hate on feminists, but we have since hijacked the intent of the thread by showing that the article in question was sensationalized. It has since morphed into an argument to belittle people asking for assistance for their anxiety problems. This may have something to do with the anti-feminists not having much of an argument left to fall back on since it has been shown that the original article is ridiculous, or it could have something to do with people not fully understanding and sympathizing with people who have mental illness. Who knows? But that is where we are.

This is clear since people seem to think that mental illness suffers aren't disabled enough to warrant special attention. Wheel chair access ramps are fine, but asking a meeting to change the way you show appreciation is hearsay. It is hypocrisy to the extreme.

The scientific field of psychology is one of the youngest sciences. It should be a given that much of what we know about how the brain works is subject to massive changes as the field of psychology develops. One of the things that needs to change though, is people's perceptions of mental illness.

Yes NAD I went to college ..FAILED because I couldn't REMEMBER the computer programs but I was THERE in an art school.
I HAD ALL that and I handled it it wasn't a big deal all you do is SMILE a lot and noone knows a thing.

MY ISSUE ,I handled it.

a reply to: InTheLight

Help them?...accommodate them? Yes! I'm all for it!

....to the point where it encroaches on completely reasonable and otherwise totally unoffensive behaviors of others? Nope, you lost me.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The difference being a wheelchair ramp doesn't force others to not use the stairs.

I'm agreeing with you, to be clear, just playing devil's advocate.