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Flower Power: Christian Florist Rejects Attorney General’s Offer

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posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 11:31 PM
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“You are asking me to walk in the way of a well-known betrayer, one who sold something of infinite worth for 30 pieces of silver,” Stutzman wrote in a letter to state Attorney General Bob Ferguson. “That is something I will not do.”


I am somewhat conflicted in regards to this story because both sides have a legitimate concern. While I can feel for a person being discriminated against and frankly, I don't find the reasoning compelling I feel the florist has the best argument. Jesus Christ would show only love and acceptance to sinners so I don't feel the florist is actually representing her religion, but I believe individual freedom trumps the discrimination in this case.

There are simply too many instances where the rights of individual citizens are being trampled on by the Government these days. Ultimately it is easy for the gays to find another florist that will be happy to take their money instead of forcing someone else to do something against what they believe. That is MY opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Source



+8 more 
posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 11:57 PM
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And what happens in a small town where there is only one florist? We've been through this with blacks. If you don't want to service the public - ALL the public - then don't be in the service business. No one is forcing her to be a florist. There are plenty of other jobs she could have where she wouldn't have to deal with gay weddings.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

My wife is a small business owner. We've discussed this, and her comment is "Does this business owner reserve the right to refuse service to customers?"

Kind of sort of makes sense to me....



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:20 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

I am heading down to my local McDonald's tomorrow sans shirt & shoes to test this theory.




posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:24 AM
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Is it me, or is this woman judging?
Isn't judging, something Christians aren't supposed to be doing....according to the bible?
GOD is supposed to be the only judge around. Hell I don't know...I'm wrong a lot. Nor have I read the bible. Just the word around the camp fire.
×scratchn my head with one hand...Palm to the face with the other× (makin good use of my time with multi-taskn)

Keep on keepn'on



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:35 AM
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This makes no sense to me. According to her own words she isn't even refusing service and this customer has been her customer since 2013 and she said he is still welcome there now. So WTF??




Stutzman, a devout Southern Baptist Christian, refused to provide flowers for the same-sex wedding of Ingersoll, a long-time customer in 2013, saying Ferguson’s offer would have forced her to betray her religious beliefs — akin to Judas betraying Jesus.

Stutzman’s lawyers state they will appeal the judge’s decision. In the meantime, she said she would continue to gladly serve Ingersoll who filed the lawsuit.

“I truly want the best for my friend,” she wrote. “I’ve also employed and served many members of the LGBT community and I will continue to do so regardless of what happens with this case.”


So she'll sell him flowers but not if he plans on using them in his wedding??? Am I reading this correctly???



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:46 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Yep - being gay is fine (even though the Bible says it's an abomination), but gay weddings are a big no-no (even though there isn't anything in the Bible about gay weddings being bad). Seems legit.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:53 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

That is dumbest thing I've ever heard of as far as an argument goes. It's none of her business what he does with the flowers he buys whether he takes them to a wedding or goes outside and throws them in the trash, they're his flowers at that point and she doesn't get to dictate what he does with them. If he takes them home and sticks them up his butt and pretends to be a field of wild flowers what difference does it make??? She should lose her business just for being this retarded in the first place.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:00 AM
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Sin is the transgression of God's law. That lady would be an awfully bored florist if she refused service to every sinner who came into her business. That goes for all the bakeries and what not that we hear about quite often. All of these Christian business owners need to spread the love of God when presented with such an opportunity. Pushing people away is the opposite of what the Lord wants us to do. Most people will hate them for the message of love they share anyway, but there is always a chance that at least one person's heart will soften and allow Jesus in.


Matthew 9:11-13 (AKJV)
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 5:15-16(AKJV)
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:03 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: kaylaluv

That is dumbest thing I've ever heard of as far as an argument goes. It's none of her business what he does with the flowers he buys whether he takes them to a wedding or goes outside and throws them in the trash, they're his flowers at that point and she doesn't get to dictate what he does with them. If he takes them home and sticks them up his butt and pretends to be a field of wild flowers what difference does it make??? She should lose her business just for being this retarded in the first place.




Ahahahha
..needed a good laugh...thankyou



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 02:43 AM
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a reply to: RoadCourse

You are absolutely on the money, I can assure you. I grew up around judgemental Christian congregations when I went to church as a child, and the hypocrisy was staggering, hence my refusal to continue to attend. I am a metalhead, and a Christian, not to mention we were pretty much dirt poor at the time, still are in real terms.

That combination in Church was like having a target painted on your back. Vilification was rife, as was a lack of empathy.

I decided to high tail it the moment I was legally responsible for my actions citing umpteen examples of the toxicity of organised worship. I was never a Sunday guy anyway. I take my beliefs everywhere with me, all week, and I do not consider it my duty to discriminate against people because of their sexuality, gender preferences, race, creed, colour, or financial status.

I have no problem with those who seek a congregational lifestyle, but it exposes me to far too much risk, far too many toxic people. Unless the man up stairs gives me a free reign to slap the bigots, I see no reason to spend the currency of my time on Earth with them!



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 03:03 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
And what happens in a small town where there is only one florist? We've been through this with blacks. If you don't want to service the public - ALL the public - then don't be in the service business. No one is forcing her to be a florist. There are plenty of other jobs she could have where she wouldn't have to deal with gay weddings.


If you live somewhere where you feel you're not welcome then do this:

LEAVE.


Yes, it's that simple.

I completely do not understand people wanting to force their personal choices into everyone elses lives. It's like some powertrip or something akin to: "I WILL MAKE YOU DO SOMETHING THAT VIOLATES YOUR VALUES"

Honestly; Fvcckk anyone who thinks this woman should have to violate her personal values!!


Just like in Japan a foreigner can never be "Japanese", you will always be Gaijin. It's THEIR culture, THEIR country, THEIR traditions. Get over it and move along. You don't like it? Leave Japan.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 03:11 AM
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originally posted by: 8675309jenny

I completely do not understand people wanting to force their personal choices into everyone elses lives. It's like some powertrip or something akin to: "I WILL MAKE YOU DO SOMETHING THAT VIOLATES YOUR VALUES"



So maybe these Bible Thumping Bigots need to stop forcing their values into other peoples lives and simply do their job and treat everyone the same. Or they can leave this great SECULAR/NON-SECULAR nation of ours.
edit on 24-2-2015 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 03:53 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

I don't want to live in a world that forces the compliance of its citizens. We might not agree with this florist, but I also don't think forcing her to comply to your belief system is the right thing either.

You say this florist could do something else to earn a living? I say the gays can go get their flowers elsewhere. Live and let live.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 04:35 AM
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eh, i think it's much ado about nothing. if god doesn't acknowledge it, it's only a civil marriage. so what's the biggie? it's no different than non gays living "unrighteous" lives (and the florist will still provide them with flowers)

Florist:
"Ahem, before i can provide you with flowers, please provide evidence that you are living a righteous life!"

Customer:
"You gotta be kidding?"





Guilty by Association by Steve Taylor

So you need a new car?
Let your fingers take a walk
Through the business guide for the "born again" flock
You'll be keeping all your money
In the kingdom now
And you'll only drink milk from a Christian cow

Don't you go casting your bread
To keep the heathen well-fed
Line Christian pockets instead
Avoid temptation

Guilty by association

Turn the radio on
To a down-home drawl
Hear a brylcream prophet with a message for y'all
"I have found a new utensil
In the devil's toolbox
And the heads are gonna roll if Jesus rocks

It's a worldly design!
God's music should be divine!
Try buying records like mine
Avoid temptation"

Guilty by association

So you say it's of the devil and we've got no choice
Because you heard a revelation from the "still small voice?"
If the Bible doesn't back it then it seems quite clear
Perhaps it was the devil who whispered in your ear

It's a Telethon Tuesday for The Gospel Club
"Send your money in now or they're gonna pull the plug!"
Just remember this fact when they plead and beg
When The Chicken Squawks Loudest Gonna Lay A Big Egg
You could be smelling a crook
You should be checking The Book
But you'd rather listen than look
The implication

Guilty by association


edit on 24-2-2015 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 04:49 AM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: kaylaluv

I don't want to live in a world that forces the compliance of its citizens. We might not agree with this florist, but I also don't think forcing her to comply to your belief system is the right thing either.

You say this florist could do something else to earn a living? I say the gays can go get their flowers elsewhere. Live and let live.


while i agree with the case of personal freedom, i think someone should appeal to the florist, that her business as a christian florist is not contingent on guaranteeing her customers are righteous people and it never has been, so why start now?? it's not logical.


edit on 24-2-2015 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 04:50 AM
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Its pretty sad situation that she thinks she is doing the right thing.
I wonder if she had to justify what she is doing from scripture would it wake her up. Probably not.

Its the world we live in, there are many nasty people in every environment, Christians as well.

Feel sorry for her.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 04:53 AM
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originally posted by: Metallicus

“You are asking me to walk in the way of a well-known betrayer, one who sold something of infinite worth for 30 pieces of silver,” Stutzman wrote in a letter to state Attorney General Bob Ferguson. “That is something I will not do.”


I am somewhat conflicted in regards to this story because both sides have a legitimate concern. While I can feel for a person being discriminated against and frankly, I don't find the reasoning compelling I feel the florist has the best argument. Jesus Christ would show only love and acceptance to sinners so I don't feel the florist is actually representing her religion, but I believe individual freedom trumps the discrimination in this case.


Jesus would indeed show love and acceptance. He might sit down to break bread with a burglar, but would he hold the ladder for him while the guy is breaking into a house? That appears to be the line that the florist is drawing. She is not refusing to serve the customer simply because they are homosexual and she considers that to be a sin, she is saying that she does not want to become an active participant (by supplying flowers for the wedding) in that sin.

Setting aside the arguments over whether it is actually sinful, I think she has a valid point. She doesn't have an issue with the person (who may be generally acting against her religious beliefs), but with a specific action that goes against her religious beliefs. She has found a middle ground that is actually far more sensible that most previous examples that have hit the headlines.

I would side with the florist in this situation, but not for the reasons set out above. On a much more fundamental level, I strongly believe that it is solely for the business to decide whether to accept a job*. If people are unhappy then boycott, or complain to the owner, but it is for society to convince the owner to change their outlook, not for government or special interest groups to force a change whether she likes it or not.


* where such a transaction would be legal, anyway. Preventing a transaction by enforcing a minimum age limit for the sale of alcohol, for example, is not the same as forcing a business owner to carry out a transaction. Preventing a sale leaves both parties in the same position as if the customer had never walked in to the shop in the first place. Enforcing a sale creates a positive burden on the business.
edit on 24-2-2015 by EvillerBob because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 04:56 AM
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originally posted by: borntowatch
Its pretty sad situation that she thinks she is doing the right thing.
I wonder if she had to justify what she is doing from scripture would it wake her up. Probably not.

Its the world we live in, there are many nasty people in every environment, Christians as well.

Feel sorry for her.


she's brain washed. no, i'm not kidding. i'm not saying christian churches, exclusively, brain wash people but, well, all institutions/mass media forms of learning, brain wash people. she's been lead to believe that she must do that in order to show evidence of her faith but it hasn't dawned on her, apparently, that she has never required her customers to prove they were righteous before this event - and that's because she knows it's not her place to do so. so clearly, someone has brain washed her into believing she should do so now.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 04:58 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

so providing flowers for non biblical divorcees is okay? just how far does this have to go before she realizes it's not really her concern as a business person?




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