Rudy Giuliani explains himself, says Obama opposition to torture 'undermines' our security

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: amazing
I agree. It's just that he appeared to be this great leader. he said all the right things and now? He stone cold nuts and doesn't care who knows it. or maybe he's just evil like you said. He certainly doesn't care about this country.

When he came into power NYC was considered an unfixable mess. He had the city in great shape when he left office. Look at it now.

His record is better than that of just about every single governor. He is also immensely popular, had he run in 2004 or 2008 I can guarantee you he would have won. He probably still could.

He's slipped or something then. All he's trying to do now is divide the country. A real man wouldn't do that.

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
Anyone who advocates the use of torture does not understand the most basic truths of such things. Let me ask a question to those who support the use of torture. If YOU were being tortured for information that you may or may not possess, how long do you think you could hold out? Think of the physical pain being inflicted, pain so bad that the only thing you want at that instant is for the pain to stop. You do not care why it stops, or what you have to do to make it stop. If there is anything you can do, you will do it. If you happen to have specific information the torturers want, you may give it to them. If you are able to keep your wits about you initially because the torture has not gotten severe, you might not give up the information, even if you know it. So depending on how the torture is conducted, the person being tortured might lie a few times, or even more, before they tell the truth. And those wanting the information will have to waste the time and resources to analyze all of those lies in an attempt to determine which is the truth. And the truth may never be figured out.



An entirely different problem arises when the person being tortured does not possess the information the torturers request. There is no way to know who might have certain information, so the torturers have to torture everybody, no matter who they are or whether they are "bad guys" or not. When someone is being tortured and does not have any information to give up, this means nothing, because they WILL give up information. Of course this information will be nothing but lies. They are not lying out of malice, but are lying to make the pain cease. It is quite a simple concept to grasp, and torture does not work, plain and simple. It will work occasionally, granted that the person being tortured actually has specific information, but this is only the case in a certain percentage of cases. So the majority of those being tortured have nothing to tell. In an insurgent warfare there are going to be people captured who are not combatants in the first place, and then innocents are being tortured. It is just a huge mess with no benefit whatsoever. Between extracting and vetting the information, too much time and too many resources are either wasted, tied up, or are sitting there doing nothing, waiting for information that probably will never come, or if it does come will be wrong.

Well said.

"The majority of those being tortured have nothing to tell." I agree 100%.

When Obama took office, I told my liberal friends I just want him to do one thing: stop the torture.

Now it looks like we are still debating this non-sense.

If this Rudy Giuliani isn't slapped down HARD for this PRO TORTURE crap, then we can expect to see more of this PRO-AMERICA, PRO-TORTURE by the Republican nominee in the 2016 (who ever that might be). Hilary and Jeb are both watching, and I hope they get the message that this PRO TORTURE talk might play well in Arizona, but it doesn't fly with the general voter.

I can't stomach this level of stupidity.
Giuliani isn't stupid, but he seems to think his base is, and they are.

originally posted by: wasaka
www.dailykos.com...

Rudy Giuliani says he is getting death threats at his office in the wake of controversial comments that President Barack Obama doesn't love America.

Torture is a good thing, right?

www.politico.com...

I suppose he also means that if an enemy captures our troops and personnel, he's equally happy for them to be tortured and won't complain about any barbarity levelled towards them too then?

Idiot.

The thing about torture is, it does not work.

You can put anyone in a room and do horrible things to them and in a matter of time they will say anything to stop it.

Look at all the wrongly convicted criminals who were subject to a type of torture and then copped to a crime they never committed.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
The thing about torture is, it does not work.

You can put anyone in a room and do horrible things to them and in a matter of time they will say anything to stop it.

Look at all the wrongly convicted criminals who were subject to a type of torture and then copped to a crime they never committed.

That's exactly true. All of the intelligence agencies in the world have manuals about torture and interrogation and getting information from prisoners. Everyone knows this.

a reply to: amazing

I'd imagine the chemical route would get better and more reliable results compared to physical or mental torture anyway.

There are commonly known compounds in existence, that can turn even the most ardent of enemy into a willing, cooperative and eager to please ally, albeit temporarily.

It would make sense to use such compounds on intelligence gathering grounds (as is the stated goal of physical and mental torture), and perhaps equally so on moral and Humanitarian grounds.

The view of a battleground is much clearer from the top of an ivory tower.

You're misinformed on Giuliani, I think. He's a White supremacist with very fascistic political views who's responsible for the "Broken Windows" policy, that sent thousands upon thousands of Black and HIspanic people to prison on either phony or exaggerated charges, and has built up the gangster roidhead police force you've since 20 years, patrolling at nearly every street corner.

...and what good did he do, exactly on 9/11? Just be there? Pose for the "good guy" during that big memorial march? Use 9/11 attacks to blame it further on those non-Whites?

That doesn't surprise me he's okay with torture. It's just more revelation on the madman he really is.

hes still at it.