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Rudy Giuliani explains himself, says Obama opposition to torture 'undermines' our security

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posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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www.dailykos.com...

Rudy Giuliani says he is getting death threats at his office in the wake of controversial comments that President Barack Obama doesn't love America.

Torture is a good thing, right?

www.politico.com...




posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 03:37 PM
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I really dislike Giuliani. He seemed to be this great leader during 9/11 and maybe he was just what America needed at the time. He really was. Then what? He just went nuts? Everything that comes out of his mouth these days is divisive, hateful and loony.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 03:44 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
I really dislike Giuliani. He seemed to be this great leader during 9/11 and maybe he was just what America needed at the time. He really was. Then what? He just went nuts? Everything that comes out of his mouth these days is divisive, hateful and loony.



This is a deep source of conservative frustration. They want to accuse Obama of radicalism the way that they once accused undergraduate Saul Alinsky-scholar Hillary Clinton of radicalism; the way that they see the media reading into Paul Ryan's Ayn Rand-fandom, or the Koch brothers' patriarch being a member of the John Birch Society. And when they try, they're accused of racism.

Remember the second Republican Presidential debate of 2007, Rudy Giuliani called Ron Paul's assertion that U.S. foreign policy was part of the reason we were attacked on 9/11 "absurd." In a press conference Paul gave on May 25, Paul presented Giuliani a reading list of books to better understand the consequences of U.S. foreign policy. I would say that Giuliani (and the rest of the hard-line republican leadership) would have been well served to read a few of the books on Ron Paul’s list www.amazon.com...


edit on 23-2-2015 by wasaka because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 03:54 PM
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Well he must have struck some truth nerves if he's getting death threats.




posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: wasaka





Remember the second Republican Presidential debate of 2007, Rudy Giuliani called Ron Paul's assertion that U.S. foreign policy was part of the reason we were attacked on 9/11 "absurd."


Exact!y. Giulianai is towing the GOP line. Nothing more.

What's funny (actually, it's sad) is that I have friends and relatives, both liberal and conservative, who for some reason think Ron Paul is a loon. He's the absolute voice of reason. He's "Mr. Sane".




posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
Well he must have struck some truth nerves if he's getting death threats.





I just don't see how being a hateful old coot helps our country. Especially from someone that almost everyone used to respect just after 9/11. You know what I mean? All he's doing is further dividing our country. That's not what we need. I think he's a paid attack dog from the republican party and that's his job. But it helps no one.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: amazing

Is Giuliani in power now?



He's just busting balls and very effectively it seems.

Lots of people freaking out



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
I really dislike Giuliani. He seemed to be this great leader during 9/11 and maybe he was just what America needed at the time. He really was. Then what? He just went nuts? Everything that comes out of his mouth these days is divisive, hateful and loony.


He said just what people wanted to hear after 9/11 to build his reputation for "statesmanship". Right around 2005 he started running for POTUS. He tried and failed in 2008. He was seen as too liberal.

I want to know what Rudy knows about 9/11. Let's just say there are some odd "coincidences" regarding the OEM bunker located in WT7. source



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: amazing
Great leader during 9/11? How did he have prior knowledge the Towers were going to fall?

Talk about a man that doesn't love his Country, this man can never be Trusted.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 04:02 PM
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How many wives did Rudy torture? How much money did he make from the tragedy of 9/11?

This guy can is going to hell. If there's a hell.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 04:03 PM
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I'm glad he clarified...because this explanation is so much better, right?



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 04:06 PM
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originally posted by: ugmold
a reply to: amazing
Great leader during 9/11? How did he have prior knowledge the Towers were going to fall?

Talk about a man that doesn't love his Country, this man can never be Trusted.


I agree. It's just that he appeared to be this great leader. he said all the right things and now? He stone cold nuts and doesn't care who knows it. or maybe he's just evil like you said. He certainly doesn't care about this country.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 04:47 PM
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I'd be willing to wager the majority of the Country sides with his views after 6+ years of the Obama apology tour train that runs on the Islamic extremist railway.....errr I mean fundamental extremist now that he consulted with all the Muslim leaders after all these years and they said it is ok to use that phrase.

That is some leadership.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: TinfoilTP
I'd be willing to wager the majority of the Country sides with his views after 6+ years of the Obama apology tour train that runs on the Islamic extremist railway.....errr I mean fundamental extremist now that he consulted with all the Muslim leaders after all these years and they said it is ok to use that phrase.

That is some leadership.


I don't know anyone that wants to take sides with a mentally unbalanced hack like Giuliani. I think you're exagerating about Obama as well. What do you mean by Obama Apology tour? I'm not his biggest fan, and i realize that some of it just happened by luck, but...unemployment is down, gas prices are down, Wall street is up...job growth is up... I mean the country is doing really well...so what does Obama have to Appoligize for? Serious question. Much better president than either of the Bushes...not as good as Clinton ...Way better than Carter and Nixon...not that bad really.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 05:12 PM
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Anyone who advocates the use of torture does not understand the most basic truths of such things. Let me ask a question to those who support the use of torture. If YOU were being tortured for information that you may or may not possess, how long do you think you could hold out? Think of the physical pain being inflicted, pain so bad that the only thing you want at that instant is for the pain to stop. You do not care why it stops, or what you have to do to make it stop. If there is anything you can do, you will do it. If you happen to have specific information the torturers want, you may give it to them. If you are able to keep your wits about you initially because the torture has not gotten severe, you might not give up the information, even if you know it. So depending on how the torture is conducted, the person being tortured might lie a few times, or even more, before they tell the truth. And those wanting the information will have to waste the time and resources to analyze all of those lies in an attempt to determine which is the truth. And the truth may never be figured out.

An entirely different problem arises when the person being tortured does not possess the information the torturers request. There is no way to know who might have certain information, so the torturers have to torture everybody, no matter who they are or whether they are "bad guys" or not. When someone is being tortured and does not have any information to give up, this means nothing, because they WILL give up information. Of course this information will be nothing but lies. They are not lying out of malice, but are lying to make the pain cease. It is quite a simple concept to grasp, and torture does not work, plain and simple. It will work occasionally, granted that the person being tortured actually has specific information, but this is only the case in a certain percentage of cases. So the majority of those being tortured have nothing to tell. In an insurgent warfare there are going to be people captured who are not combatants in the first place, and then innocents are being tortured. It is just a huge mess with no benefit whatsoever. Between extracting and vetting the information, too much time and too many resources are either wasted, tied up, or are sitting there doing nothing, waiting for information that probably will never come, or if it does come will be wrong.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 05:30 PM
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Giuliani is a tool, a dirty rusty smelly old tool.

That being said, what is the mentality behind people who send death threats to people they disagree with and don't like? Especially in the modern day you've got to be a huge dummy to do something like that.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 09:46 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
I agree. It's just that he appeared to be this great leader. he said all the right things and now? He stone cold nuts and doesn't care who knows it. or maybe he's just evil like you said. He certainly doesn't care about this country.


When he came into power NYC was considered an unfixable mess. He had the city in great shape when he left office. Look at it now.

His record is better than that of just about every single governor. He is also immensely popular, had he run in 2004 or 2008 I can guarantee you he would have won. He probably still could.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 10:02 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: amazing
I agree. It's just that he appeared to be this great leader. he said all the right things and now? He stone cold nuts and doesn't care who knows it. or maybe he's just evil like you said. He certainly doesn't care about this country.


When he came into power NYC was considered an unfixable mess. He had the city in great shape when he left office. Look at it now.

His record is better than that of just about every single governor. He is also immensely popular, had he run in 2004 or 2008 I can guarantee you he would have won. He probably still could.



Is that a guarantee I can take to the bank?

Forgive me for a fact check:



Rudy Giuliani's 2008 presidential campaign began following the formation of the Draft Giuliani movement in October 2005. The next year, Giuliani opened an exploratory committee and formally announced in February 2007 that he was actively seeking the presidential nomination of the Republican Party.


So do still you guarantee me he would have won in 2008?



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 10:02 PM
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double post =(



edit on 23-2-2015 by wasaka because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 10:17 PM
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originally posted by: wasaka
So do still you guarantee me he would have won in 2008?


I suppose I can't say it with 100% certainty, but I believe he could have. McCain was put up to lose because he couldn't compete against either Hillary or Obama or Paul and the Republicans wanted to play it safe and save their candidates for the future.

One of McCains biggest strikes against him was that he appeared to be an old coot that was set in his ways. Against Hillary he would have been misogynistic despite the Palin side of the ticket and against Obama he couldn't compete against the youthful candidate. Giuliani didn't have the age strike against him at the time and he wasn't coming from Congress unlike both Obama and Hillary (mayors and governors have traditionally been more successful candidates against senators and reps).

His biggest challenge would have been in securing the primary which as you point out, he failed to do. I think he would have beaten Hillary and while it's not clear he would have beat Obama (Hope and Change was a very strong message) he would have at the very least made a real fight out of it. Of course, if he had gotten the nod, the Dem's may have favored Hillary in the first place.



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