How is ANYONE supposed to get ahead nowadays?

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

As my husband and I are nearing retirement, all we want would be an in-law suite and an RV. So, I put it to my two adult children that for them to get a foothold in property investment, we would sell our existing house, put up the down payment for another larger house to accommodate all of us (with good resale possibilities and good location) and they would take over the mortgage payments, while we contribute our share of taxes, maintenance, and utilities - but pay no rent. The percentages of ownership would be worked out depending on different factors. Fair?

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

We need almost $10k in several months rent and security deposits just to rent a f'ng house! Wtf?

Where the hell are you moving to that you need 10k in advance payments to rent a house ??

Does it cost that much to rent a house anywhere in the country ?

If that's the case, how is anyone managing to rent a house in the US then ?

You don't need 10k anywhere in the US to start renting a home - if so you are looking WAY outside of your budget.

Typically it's first and last month rent + security deposit.

I think the OP is exaggerating.

OP - my tenants' lease is up in 8 months. I charge $1250 for rent, 4 bedroom 2 bathroom 1/3 acre lot with a nice yard and lots of fruit trees..

I ask first and last months rent + $1000 security deposit which is fully refundable if you don't wreck the place.

Thought id chime in.....up here in Vancouver, Canada that would be cheap! Houses run $4000 a month in the city proper and about 1800 to $2600 suburbs for a two to three bedroom. To rent a one bedroom apartment is minimum $750 in the burbs to about $1600 a month downtown. Even a bachelor suite starts at about 600 to $650 a month.

I should note that we are the 2nd most expensive city in north america to live ... A place where milk is $4.60 a gallon...gas is down to only $4.10 a gallon...bread is 3.85 ...a loaf butter is 5.00 a pound...drinks are now 12.00 for a cocktail and 7.00 a sleeve of beer and movie tickets are $13.00 ....then i should mention the AVERAGE house price is now $860,000 for a three bedroom... $350,000 for a 550 square foot condo
...now imagine tring to deal with that sort of living expense when the AVERAGE wage for a new grad one year out of college is $28,000 to $34,000 per year!!! Be grateful...you could be living in a REALLY EXPENSIVE city !!!

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: AnonymousMoose


and just to add, after working 60hrs a week and never getting enough sleep or getting the chance to right (cant afford it/don't have time) I am now diabetic and may have kidney damage at the ripe old age of 31...woohoo

Well, when it's Jeb Bushes America in 2016; I'm sure your financial and health issues will improve!

oh god no....

a reply to: InTheLight
That sounds like a win win. I might do something like that with my own kids sometime down the road.
Sensible economic cooperation like this seems to be a good answer to the "new normal" of severely reduced affluence that we in the US are facing. I wonder why it is not more common? Hmmm...this sounds like a topic that may deserve its own thread here on ATS.

originally posted by: olddognewtricks
a reply to: InTheLight
That sounds like a win win. I might do something like that with my own kids sometime down the road.
Sensible economic cooperation like this seems to be a good answer to the "new normal" of severely reduced affluence that we in the US are facing. I wonder why it is not more common? Hmmm...this sounds like a topic that may deserve its own thread here on ATS.

It's a great idea, because the young adults can start investing in property and not pay a whopping large mortgage and everything that goes along with home ownership from their meager starting-off-in-life salaries. I really don't know why it is not more common, but I did read an article a while back that indicated that it is becoming more of an option (necessity) for young people to purchase property together due to adverse economic conditions. Maybe you should start a new thread on it, and we could discuss the legal ramifications and pitfalls, e.g. if one house partner loses their job.

a reply to: InTheLight

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: olddognewtricks
a reply to: InTheLight
That sounds like a win win. I might do something like that with my own kids sometime down the road.
Sensible economic cooperation like this seems to be a good answer to the "new normal" of severely reduced affluence that we in the US are facing. I wonder why it is not more common? Hmmm...this sounds like a topic that may deserve its own thread here on ATS.

Good for you, but do not forget Americans simply don't have this kind of inter-family support system, never have and never will, because American born parents are brainwashed morons. The have been FULLY enculturated into the myth of "boot-strapping". I know first hand because I came from one of those "idiot American" brainwashed families that are still broke to this day. When I got to experience how Asians do things, first hand, I was amazed how stupid American families are in contrast, "boot strapping" their way into poverty, while kicking kids out of the home at 18, that don't know how to survive, due to never being taught how to make money.

I will further explain why others Americans don't do such and NEVER will based on my own experience with my parents and extended family.

I had an idea to buy a family owned property (possibly set up as a co-op with the intention of everyone's name being on the deed or trust and operating as equal owners of the business), with the land zoned as agricultural-2 land. I intended to erect small pre-fab houses, so everyone would have their own place, put in a co-gen/solar/diesel generator system for the whole property AND run it as a small agribusiness, selling produce, goat milk and other naturally produced goods. However, the purpose was NOT to be profitable, the purpose was to break even after taking tax deductions. You see I ran the numbers and there was a HUGE saving, if everyone liquidated their homes and transferred their cars over to a trust (401k's were also considered but not needed to put the plan in motion). I actually knew someone doing the same (one of the owners of the company I work for) whom was willing to give advice on how to set it all up. I figured with a few of our family members being semi-retired this could work, using hired seasonal hands and the others whom were making good salaries could keep working at the jobs they had, paying "rent" to the trust to live on the property (and still being included in the trust). BUT, everyone participating needed to sell their homes, turn over the cash from the sale to the trust and also put their cars in the business name.

Well guess what happened?

I was immediately shut down because after all, being the youngest, how could I POSSIBLY know anything about tax code and business. The minute I said "liquidate and pool resources" in a trust, that was the end of it. Now I understand that my idea may have flaws, but NO ONE was interested in coming up with similar, alternative solutions, that would save everyone money. They said "we earned this stuff and bought it, so why should we pool anything".

Note, my boss who has done this already, has reduced his tax bill significantly and can't loose the property he lives in, if his other business bankrupts because its held by a trust and the small agribusiness is a co-op.

Again, most parents today, both young and old, have been FULLY enculturated into the myth of "boot-strapping". With all of theses "idiot Americans" continuing to be brainwashed and broke to this day. American families are doing nothing more than "boot strapping" their way into poverty, while kicking kids out of the home at 18, that don't know how to survive, due to never being taught how to make money. The concept of "pooling resources" is so foreign to them and so strongly resisted, that most average Americans would prefer to be homeless and destitute, than to share resources cooperatively among extended family or children.

The true "Owners of Capital" have already won the cultural battle and have enslaved many generations, though brainwashing and the highly visible promotion of the "boot strapping" myth. Americans still think "boot strapping" will get somewhere, when in reality al it takes is a kid with money to ask daddy to fund a "new business model" in the industry you are employed in.

End result?

"Your industry" gets more efficient and profitable and you are permanently out of a job

Good job average Americans, give yourselves a BIG round of applause, you are the ABSOLUTELY the product of your own stubborn belief in the myths that were spoon fed to you by the true "Owners of Capital".

Meanwhile, a rich kid, using daddy money, created a new business model and just put formally independent babby-sitters under her firm. She now gets a "cut" of the money they earn, ala the Uber model. But hey, she "boot-strapped" that business, earning the start up money over many summers, right? WRONG!

Booming Babysitting Business Forces 15-Year-Old Girl to Hire a CEO

Maybe op is from New York. 1 bedroom in a non "hot spot" $1500 min. x3 = $4500. 2 bedroom in non hot spot - $1800 min x3 = $5400. Say you want to not own a car and live near the city or in the city then yeah 1 bedroom in hot spot easily $2000-$3000 x3 = $6000-$9000. A two bedroom in williamsburg or downtown Manhattan easily will break $3000-$4000 x3=$9000-$12000 upfront.

First month, last month, security deposit (which most often times landlords try to not give back).

One benefit, older homes have heating and water included. Newer ones have separate meters for everything.

Another benefit is, if you move into someplace and decide to stay for the long haul your rent can only go up a certain percentage per year about 3%. But also leases are written in such a way that if owner doesn't want to renew they don't have to.

The reason for high rents ESP in nyc in old dilapidated roach infested rat infested buildings are - as most of you here might've guessed - the government regulations. With the number of people owning "rent stablized" units meaning a building with 6 or more units built before (1970? I don't remember the date ) and that persons rent must be raised by the 3% a year at max rule (numbers are wrong but about there). And they have special rights under affordable housing rules. They can never be kicked out , their rents normally are insanely low from families passing down the lease to children , some people are living in places in the city for $300-$500 a month in 3-4 bedroom prewar units. (Market rates probably over $5000m)

This type of subsidizing is the reason why everyone else's rent is "so damn high" if a landlord has a rent stablized leasee then everyone else has to cough up extra to obviously pay for mortgage , water, heating , taxes, because that rent stblz unit is a loss. Worse is people with rent stablized units often rent it out it themselves at market rate and use it as a rental f income at the expense of the actual home owner.

This is a major reason why rent is so high in nyc. Lots of fruad. Lots of govt intervention. And obviously massive demand. But contrary to belief if rent stabilization was gone and everything was free market. Rents would be lower because landlords will actually have to compete for rents.

I have an income of about 45k a year, with a newborn child and I get by pretty fine.. there are plenty of ways to get financed for a house without 20% down btw lol and even most traditional loans don't require 20% down. That's what they do WANT you to do though. I agree though, there's too many damn handouts thanks to obama aka the welfare king. He'd rather give everything to sorry people who won't work for a living. Gives it all for free which makes the prices soar smh it's disgusting

I wish I knew where to find foreclosures in bc canada, all the sites here charge a fee. I am going to have a down payment soon, but would rather a deal.

originally posted by: Hijinx
I make 40k a year on no schooling... how do you have so much debt and make so little? I have a car, and have no debt. I have savings, I currently pay rent and don't own and understand the pains of having to have a large down payment but i'm trying to put away what i can.

I just don't get why people throw themselves into debt for no gain. 20k of student loans to make 30k a year is a bad business decision if you ask me. That's just ridiculous, why did you even go to school?

There's many reasons for this. A good number of bachelors and even some masters programs are essentially do nothing degrees. I'm talking about bachelors programs like business, music, and womens studies. These are subjects that some good classes can be built around but as a major they just don't hold up. At the master's level a program like education is their joke degree.

20k in student loans is quite low, I've been lucky myself to do everything without loans but the average is much closer to the 60k range.

originally posted by: Tatanka
My parents were blue collar workers in factories in the 70's - 90's. The factory that my mother worked for and made $21.00 per hour a year before her retirement, now pays $9.00 per hour for the exact same job she did, and the cap on wages there is around $13.50. That's how awful things are. My mother and father never suffered, other than physical ailments from years of factory work, BUT they had a good life. They always took vacations in the summers, enough food on the table, money for bills and insurance and we always had just what we needed. They EVEN had a savings account. They both retired with great benefits. They worked hard and deserved it. I find myself and my husband working just as hard and getting nowhere close to where my parents were, and I have not gone on a vacation since 2006.

Purchasing power has been declining steadily for decades now. 50k/year today has the same purchasing power as minimum wage in 1956. Your current $9/hour has a purchasing power less than that of minimum wage at the time the factory was paying $21 for that work.

originally posted by: AnonymousMooseMy wife and I are 31 years old. She has her masters degree an has a part time low paid internship, and works as a nanny for $20/hr for a total of about 45hrs a week, I have my bachelors and am working on a masters (why? I have no idea, it will be worthless) and work a job an average of 50 to 60 hours a week at $18/hr.

My step sister with her masters degree and 100k of debt works an unpaid internship for 60 hours a week. She has been doing this for two years now, on the promise they'll start paying her when the economy improves and in the meantime she can gain work experience. Her husband and her parents support her.

and just to add, after working 60hrs a week and never getting enough sleep or getting the chance to right (cant afford it/don't have time) I am now diabetic and may have kidney damage at the ripe old age of 31...woohoo

Lots of debt? Sick of trying to start a modest career that never goes anywhere? Tired of working 60 hour weeks while developing health issues that you get no medical coverage for? Ask your doctor if an early death is right for you. In death you'll find the freedom that your country originally promised you in life.

originally posted by: boohoo
I had an idea to buy a family owned property (possibly set up as a co-op with the intention of everyone's name being on the deed or trust and operating as equal owners of the business), with the land zoned as agricultural-2 land. I intended to erect small pre-fab houses, so everyone would have their own place, put in a co-gen/solar/diesel generator system for the whole property AND run it as a small agribusiness, selling produce, goat milk and other naturally produced goods. However, the purpose was NOT to be profitable, the purpose was to break even after taking tax deductions. You see I ran the numbers and there was a HUGE saving, if everyone liquidated their homes and transferred their cars over to a trust (401k's were also considered but not needed to put the plan in motion). I actually knew someone doing the same (one of the owners of the company I work for) whom was willing to give advice on how to set it all up. I figured with a few of our family members being semi-retired this could work, using hired seasonal hands and the others whom were making good salaries could keep working at the jobs they had, paying "rent" to the trust to live on the property (and still being included in the trust). BUT, everyone participating needed to sell their homes, turn over the cash from the sale to the trust and also put their cars in the business name.

I've had similar ideas. Maybe not exactly the same. I realized awhile ago that working for my own enrichment is foolish. Instead everything I do is set up to be able to give jobs to a few people, and we can either succeed or fail together. Assuming I make my share of some profit off of it, its going into a family owned property with the idea of setting up a system to create generational wealth. I'm 30 and I will never be well off, but I can set up a system so that that's not the case in a generation or two.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

"The dream is gone, the child has grown...I have become comfortably numb."

I've accepted the fact that I won't have a nuclear family but in a way I'm relieved that I don't. In this day in age there is no such thing as job security and everything you hold dear has a price tag-health insurance, life insurance, home and contents insurance...you're a slave to money then you die.

The American dream is just that-a dream. I know that I've said this before but the invention of currency was probably one of the worst ideas ever devised and the gap between the rich and the poor has been widening since it's inception.