Flintlock from 1700s could land elderly NJ man in prison

originally posted by: beezzer
If he was an illegal alien and had a loaded 9mm on his lap with a dead teenaged hooker in the trunk, he would have gotten off with a stern warning.

aw come on man,
i expect more from you than this. your posts are usually quite good.

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Blaine91555
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originally posted by: daskakik
I like how the rule of law crowd are quick to denounce enforcement of a law that actually sits on the books.

There's "letter of the law" and "spirit of the law." Im all for the rule of law. I'm also all for not having asinine laws, and asinine enforcement of asinine laws.

a reply to: Shamrock6

You could certainly club the hell out of someone with that thing.

But, yes, this is just bass ackwards stupid.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
There's "letter of the law" and "spirit of the law." Im all for the rule of law. I'm also all for not having asinine laws, and asinine enforcement of asinine laws.

Great, I'll try using that "asinine law" defense if I'm ever taken to court.

Rule of law means following the laws on the books even if someone considers them asinine. Can't have things both ways.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Krakatoa
ON-TOPIC:
How is this flintlock pistol equivalent to a semi-automatic handgun that requires almost zero brain cells to operate?

Obviously nothing other than, if you are lucky with the antique, the ball will come out straight and kill someone.

I would rather throw it at them and make a hasty retreat.

That would be your best bet.

There is a reason they used to line up shoulder to shoulder and fire enmass, just to try to hit a few of the other side.

I guess at point blank it would be accurate enough to hit your target.

a reply to: infinityorder

Maybe. My dad was an antique firearms collector and I shot a flintlock pistol he had and the ball came out and hit the plywood target we set up at five feet away about three feet up and to the left.

You woul have been better off trying to lobotomize your target with the ramrod.

a reply to: daskakik

Good luck to you. Thank you for the clarification on what rule of law means. I will refrain from pointing out stupid laws in the future, and will cease thinking about letter versus spirit of the law from this point forward.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: infinityorder

Maybe. My dad was an antique firearms collector and I shot a flintlock pistol he had and the ball came out and hit the plywood target we set up at five feet away about three feet up and to the left.

You woul have been better off trying to lobotomize your target with the ramrod.

This has been my smooth bore blackpowder experience as well.

American history is filled with cases of bad laws being challenged. At one time, a little law known as the "Stamp Act" was considered a bad law. It was protested by the original Sons of Liberty (not the travesty shown on History Channel now). Bad laws, in this country, are meant to be challenged and disobeyed. If that means going to jail to uncover the injustice, then that is the payment one must pay. Only a total sheep blindly follows a law that is (or should be due to common sense) unjust or just plain stupid.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Good luck to you. Thank you for the clarification on what rule of law means. I will refrain from pointing out stupid laws in the future, and will cease thinking about letter versus spirit of the law from this point forward.

If it is the law I am thinking it even specifies airguns and weapons actioned with elastic bands as firearms:

"Firearm" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.

Not much to think as far as letter vs spirit and like I said earlier, pointing out a law as asinine does not change it's enforcability.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
Only a total sheep blindly follows a law that is (or should be due to common sense) unjust or just plain stupid.

I agree.

a reply to: daskakik

Actually, you can get the laws changed.

Like here where I live, the word "Firearm" is actually defined by the law. Muzzle loading, hand held weapons are not considered "firearms", same with any gun or replica that requires a separate loading of round and charge.

Instead they are defined as "Antiques", and there are no license required for them.

If a cop here had seen it, they would have laughed, handed it back, and urged the driver to lock their car up or it might get stolen.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
Actually, you can get the laws changed.

Never said you couldn't or shouldn't.

a reply to: daskakik

Again, thank you for clearing up the legal stuff for me. It helps.

Letter of the law: my god you have what is essentially, in its present state, a hunk of wood and steel! Prison for you!

Spirit of the law: hey thanks for being honest about that ridiculous paperweight of a gun in your glove box, how bout you put it in your trunk now where it's supposed to be?

As I pointed out before: being an enforceable law doesn't negate the utter stupidity of the law.

Won't go anywhere. Or at least, I highly doubt it will, unless there's some stuff in NJ that's totally different from what's on the books federally. In federal law, at least, that's not even legally a firearm, anything that doesn't take a metallic cartridge isn't. That covers anything from an arquebus to modern muzzleloading hunting guns, as well as cap-and-ball revolvers.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Spirit of the law: hey thanks for being honest about that ridiculous paperweight of a gun in your glove box, how bout you put it in your trunk now where it's supposed to be?

Which is the real travesty as this will most likely get tossed after wasting everyone's time. The officer who made the initial stop recognized this antique would have been pratically useless in the commission of a crime and wanted to do the right thing by allowing the collector to be on his way.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Letter of the law: my god you have what is essentially, in its present state, a hunk of wood and steel! Prison for you!

Spirit of the law: hey thanks for being honest about that ridiculous paperweight of a gun in your glove box, how bout you put it in your trunk now where it's supposed to be?

I don't think so.

As I pointed out before: being an enforceable law doesn't negate the utter stupidity of the law.

And the stupidity of the law doesn't mean the poor guy isn't being treated in accordance to the principal of "rule of law".

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Letter of the law: my god you have what is essentially, in its present state, a hunk of wood and steel! Prison for you!

Spirit of the law: hey thanks for being honest about that ridiculous paperweight of a gun in your glove box, how bout you put it in your trunk now where it's supposed to be?

I don't think so.

As I pointed out before: being an enforceable law doesn't negate the utter stupidity of the law.

And the stupidity of the law doesn't mean the poor guy isn't being treated in accordance to the principal of "rule of law".

You don't think so? Lol okay man. Thanks for clearing that up

originally posted by: Shamrock6
You don't think so? Lol okay man. Thanks for clearing that up

Your example of spirit of law doesn't really fit the definition. It is obvious that the intent of the law is to classify damn near everything that shoots a projectile a "firearm".

What you posted was a pesonal interpretation of law.

ETA: Letter of law and spirit of law are not mutually exclusive, especially when talking about laws like this one, that gets really specific about what it is referring to.