Is There True Evil In The Middle East?

Humanity has been grappling with these questions throughout human history. And lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ. In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.

In my opinion the west needs to remove itself entirely from the Middle East

it has become a much too dangerous place,

with much evil attached to it

it needs to be declared a world wide "no go zone"

and anyone from any outside country who enters
(including journalists and aid workers)
are completely on their own
and will not be rescued or bargained for

For those who compare it to the Christians of 1000 years ago,
let's just say, enlightenment came to the Christians;
and they no longer commit the kind of truly evil, barbaric, and heinous
atrocities in the name of their religion;
that we are seeing committed on a nearly daily basis in the Middle East.

Blaming Christians or the west
is a way to
NOT take responsibility
for the actions
of those who are truly to blame.


The evil Daesh Islamic Muslims
NOT whoever funds them,
NOT whoever "provoked them"
(that is infantile reasoning
which shows a deep lack of self control),
but they themselves.

This is a religious war
Christians need to butt out
secular nations like the US need to butt out
(remember Obama himself said
the US is not a Christian nation any longer)
all secular nations need to butt out

It is the [defamed and defiled, by the actions of their fellow Muslims]
enlightened, good and modern Muslims
and Muslim countries who need to deal with this;
who need to stop the funding coming in from outside the region;
who need to put an end to the awful and horrific
defilement of Allah, Mohammed and all good Muslims

Until this is solved
the world must shun the Middle East entirely
and let them handle their own problem
and not make it worse by interfering as they have done in the past

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
What's the difference between a suicide bomber killing innocent women and children and a U.S. drone dropping bombs on civilian areas in the hope of killing a few of the bad guys? There is no difference, they are equally evil.

Yes there is evil in the Middle East. There is evil everywhere, even right here at home, maybe even more so.

You are aware that the very people we have been fighting have been known to use that to their advantage?

The have used schools and human shields thinking that people like yourself will not drop bombs on them for fear of hitting the civilian targets.

How do you combat that if you are not willing to take the risk?

a reply to: ketsuko

The have used schools and human shields thinking that people like yourself will not drop bombs on them for fear of hitting the civilian targets.

So we dropped the bombs anyway, proving to the world that just like ISIS, we don't hesitate to kill and maim civilians to further our own agenda.

How do you combat that if you are not willing to take the risk?

You don't. You leave them alone and stop sending young men to die over there because it's good for the elites buisiness plan.

originally posted by: Ismail
Groups like ISIS will continue to flourish on this planet as long as humanity continues to define reality with manicheistic and excessively simplistic concepts such as "good" and "evil".

"True evil" does not exist.
Atrocities committed in the name of "good", or in the certainty of fighting "evil", those things -on the other hand- they have abounded all though human history.

We need to stop dragging our knuckles around, trying to grasp the world with these bronze age concepts, and move on...

This is a very poor argument.

Ask any Atheist if they have a moral compass and whether they can distinguish right (good) and from wrong (evil) The Atheists I know share the same sense of basic morality that I do having been raised in a Christian family.

We agree that things like wife beating and murder are wrong while things like helping the homeless for no personal gain and donating to victims of distaster is right.

Good and evil are simply the extremities of right and wrong i.e. Something that is done for the benefit of others in a purely selfless way is extreme end of right and would classify as Good. Conversely, something that is done with pure malevolent intent to bring harm and misery to others is wrong and classifies as evil. Religion has simply added figures that we can relate to on top of this basic concept i.e. the God of Christianity is supposed to represent all that is good and someone we aspire to be like and close to whereas the Devil represents the dark selfish destructive side of ourselves that we should strive to shun and avoid being like.

And yes, pure evil exists everywhere, even more so when you apply the simplistic Atheist non spiritual view because there are plenty of people, including Isis who are purely self motivated and intent on bringing everyone down around them to push their selfish agenda.

a reply to: markosity1973

This is a very poor argument.

I disagree.
For this world to change for the better, we need to stop using the dated black and white rhetoric which facilitates hate and misunderstanding.

a reply to: Ismail

I'll tell you what, while as a western citizen I respect your right to a different opinion to mine, I dare you try and express your point of view to Isis in person.

I guarantee you won't keep your head on its shoulders for long.

a reply to: markosity1973

Why on earth would I want to try and express my point of view to ISIS in person ?
How is my potiential decapitation relevent to the debate ?
Are you trying to say that we should stoop to their level ?
I don't get your point.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Killing people in general is evil in my opinion. The war in the Middle East is predicated on lies and when they indiscriminately drop bombs on civilian areas in the "hope" of killing a few bad guys and in the end kill and injure hundreds of civilians, it is an act of evil.

You may think that killing in anyway is evil, but bombs are not dropped "indiscriminately". There is a lot that goes into the decision and many times the decision is to not drop due to civilian possible casualties. With that said, this is not about a war or politics it is about how does a mass of people get to the level they are at.

The reality is that the Muslin on Muslin violence is the vast majority of what is going on, so you may suggest the US had a hand in destabilizing the area, but that doesn't mean that people should start doing the heinous acts that I listed in the OP too.

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Xtrozero

So we can agree. It's delusion.

People aren't inherently evil. They have to agree to be evil.

No, I'm asking what would drive mass delusion at this level if there is no evil force guiding it? The speed at which this went to such evil levels is rather interesting too. Another part that is interesting that I just read about today is Europe schooled and lived middle class young adult Muslims that go from you average kid to heading over there to join isis and end up cutting up people in some kind of rage that has no foundation, history or focus for them.

originally posted by: ccseagull


The end is coming (from a Christian viewpoint). We Christians don't want anyone to suffer or for their life or world to end. We do want what God has promised which is eternal life of love, peace and joy with our Savior.

Thought there should be 1000 years of peace...but I think it is a common belief with many the end will happen in their lifetime, whether its the rapture, asteroid, Yellowstone or a disease people always feel they are at the forefront of events.

People can be tempted and do evil things but I do believe that when one allows evil to take over their heart that they have allowed a greater evil to enter as well - demonic forces.

Something seems to be driving them ever so deeper, when we think they reach the lowest they do something new that sets the evil bar even lower. Everything they want to accomplish can still be done without these extremely evil acts, and these acts will be their down fall as countries that would typically be neutral become very involved to stop them, so in a way these acts only hurt them.

There is no advantage to this madness. As example they could have easily gotten 20 million per Japanese hostage...but they wanted to kill them from day one. There is no tactical advantage to drain virgin children dry of their blood when they can just get as much as they need without killing people for it. No advantage to just "out of the blue" capture 21 Christian workers from a country not even involved and behead them for propaganda. What do they get from stomping babies? I do not know...

What I want is people to back away from the political agenda aspects and think about these people at the lowest level where this evil is personally performed...

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Xtrozero

As crazy as it sounds, I've wondered the same thing. Is there evil in the world? Not 'evil' in the ordinary sense that people can do horrendous things to each other. Rather an Evil as something greater.

The Rwanda genocides seemed to be beyond the simple misdeeds of people. I recall watching a news programme that showed how hundreds had been herded into a church for slaughter. The day came to an end before the killing was over so they hacked the Achilles and wrists of the living so they'd stay there for sunrise next day.

IS seem to be playing out the same extreme level of sickness as in Rwanda. Likewise, whatever happened in Germany to make people, just like us, build death camps? Pol Pot and his killing fields? Stalin's slaughter of his own?

It all seems short lived, comes quickly and goes just as quick. Look at Japan as example. I lived there for 5 years and you want to talk about a meek society. They might be tough businessmen but there is hardly a violent bone in their body today. Go back to WWII and that was a different story. There were savage and even suicidal, the value of life lost all meaning. There was a reason we dropped A-bombs and didn't invade. Within a year they evolved into what we see to day....

It makes me wonder if there's something like an evil contagion that moves around populations? A madness. There always seems to be a location on Earth where atrocities are committed in ways and numbers that exceed banal inhumanity.

Evil at this level just does not make sense or have any advantage. Just think if Hitler had embraced the German Jew. I think most of Europe would be speaking German today.... What we see to day rivals Pol Pot...

What's worse is such societal changes are only ever half a generation away and can happen to any of us at any time. Evil as an intelligent force doesn't make sense to me and, like you, I'm not particularly religious and don't conceptualise the world as Good Vs Evil. Nevertheless, the dark periods that visit human cultures appear very much like the behaviour of Evil.

This evil with isis went from nothing to what we have today in about a year. How does one go from a fun loving kid in Europe to cutting off heads 6 months later with isis...news story today...

originally posted by: Whereismypassword
ISIS are cold hearted thugs

You saying your a good guy fighting in an illegal war for so long! 28 years,and you never saw the light during your time occupying other peoples countries in the tail end of your service

I don't think I ever said I was a good guy, I said what is happening over there today is something different than what has ever happen in my career. It is at such a level of evil that exceeds even the madness of a madman....

originally posted by: Ismail

I disagree.
For this world to change for the better, we need to stop using the dated black and white rhetoric which facilitates hate and misunderstanding.

Ok some isis fighter holds a baby what do you call it when he decides to stomp it to death? I'll go with whatever word you deem correct to accurately label this event.

a reply to: ketsuko

Who says the ones we're fighting are the ones who carried out 9/11? Our government? I don't trust the government.

If another country invaded the US, you'd be assured that the citizens of the US would fight back, just like the people in the ME are doing.

What if Islamic terrorists invaded our country and the government decided to indiscriminately bomb US cities in the hope of killing a few of them among thousands of other people? Would you still hold the same stance as you do now?

You only condone it because it is not US civilians or your family being the ones bombed. If it were your family, you'd be singing a different tune. Those civilians who are killed in the ME have a family just like you.

originally posted by: Ismail
a reply to: markosity1973

Why on earth would I want to try and express my point of view to ISIS in person ?
How is my potiential decapitation relevent to the debate ?
Are you trying to say that we should stoop to their level ?
I don't get your point.

My point is that while you are happily claiming then moral high ground telling us all we should not label these acts and the perpetrators with traditional terms like evil, they are out there busily chopping off heads and making videos to tell us they are coming for us.

Your opinion is not helpful in stopping a threat that is growing in both numbers and force every day.

a reply to: markosity1973

A threat that we created, and that our warlike reactions will fuel.
What you need to understand is that there is a political rhetoric behind the religious one, and this is true for ISIS just as much as it is for the rest of the muslim world.
So long as we keep killing them, toppling regimes, destroying villages, families, local economies, traumatizing children with our big boom boom machines, we will be percieved as the aggressor by the majority. That needs to stop for the moderates to be able to get their voices heard on a political level.
Because as things stand, on a purely technical level, groups like ISIS are fundamentaly RIGHT, and that is the reason they manage to unite so many followers. We ARE the great satan for the people on the ground. We ARE the ones responsible for most of the misery and suffering over there. Until that ceases, until we stop intervening left right and center all over the middle-east, we will just be feeding the beast.

Your opinion is not helpful in stopping a threat that is growing in both numbers and force every day.

Really. But your opinion is playing into what ISIS wants : more dead civvies = justification of their rhetoric = more soldiers for them. When you don't have anyone left in the whole region who hasn't lost a family member to western interventionism, who do you think the locals will be rooting for ? The home team, that's who...

a reply to: Xtrozero

Ok I can respect that,and I respect the armed service for any person signing up these days is certainly not a coward

Perhaps foolish as they are being used as pawns in our new wars but I can't hold that against them

Yes ISIS have reached an absurd level of brutality with Hollywood like production to project this terror further than the borders it initiated in

I'm just a little confused as to why we can't eliminate them,IMO we were using then in Syria when the rebels we backed were not making progress but once again this has backfired as they have started to spread out across the borders

a reply to: Ismail

Your argument falls over dead right about the part where I point out that the people who are doing the most dying are fellow citizens of these nations Isis is trying to take over.

Christian minorities are being slaughtered, but they aren't the Western agressors

Gays are being pushed off buildings, but they aren't the Western agressors

Women are being enslaved as either 'comfort women' or bloodbags for injured isis fighters, but they too aren't the Western agressors.

Innocent children are abducted, butchered or forced to live a life inconceivable to our way of thinkng, but they aren't the Western agressors either.

Isis is busily killing it's own in order to create a purist Islam state, just like the Nazis did in WW2. We are next on the list if and when they get the critical mass to perpetuate their march west.

Pretending that we just need to nice to a monster is not going to make it stop. These people are single minded and will stop at nothing to achieve their goal of global radical Islamic expansion. They take delight in dying so they can go to their pretend paradise with their fake 12 virgins.

a reply to: markosity1973

Christian minorities are being slaughtered, but they aren't the Western agressors Gays are being pushed off buildings, but they aren't the Western agressors Women are being enslaved as either 'comfort women' or bloodbags for injured isis fighters, but they too aren't the Western agressors. Innocent children are abducted, butchered or forced to live a life inconceivable to our way of thinkng, but they aren't the Western agressors either.

You are either failing to see the bigger picture because you are blinded by your own hate, or you're doing it on purpose.

If you don't understand the evident, timelessly demonstrated cause-consequence relation between the actions of our military, and the radicalization of muslim religious groups, of which all of the atrocities you mentioned above are CONSEQUENCES, then you are not thinking rationally.

Lets be realistic here for a second. ISIS can't touch us. ISIS has no chance in erradicating the western world. None. Zilch. Nada. Sure they might kill a few of us, maybe even a few thousand, if they get lucky. But that's it. They will never be able to occupy us, or impose their religion upon us, or do any of the other things they get all hot and bothered about. They do kill the westerners that they can get their hands on. But as a general rule, yes, they have to play in their own backyard.

Come on man, get real. We could wipe them of the face of the earth in a matter of days if it actually came to that. Thing is, in that scenario, instead of mad dogs who had to be put down by the moderate muslims themselves, we would be making ISIS martyrs who died at the hands of the western infidels. And we'd have to kill about twice as many civilians, which is fuel for the fire, from any radical muslims point of view.

What you are proposing simply gives ISIS more political legitimacy. Our civilisation has grown out of religious empathy. We have moved on to nationalism and the state as a basis for civilisational solidarity. Muslims have not. Leave them alone, and they will bicker amongst themselves, as they always have, until one day they grow out of it. Attack them and you will only serve to polarize the majority against you.