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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Much like nobody really cares when the Pope says something, a lot of people don't care when religious scholars say things. It has to come from the people.
It's gotta be 50 thousand Muslims marching in some city somewhere, showing solidarity between all races, religions etc.
That's a wonderful thought, and I'm all for it - but in reality, it's going to be very difficult to get that many people motivated enough.
So why the tattoo of war drums for ISIS?
See how irritating a statement like that is? Absolutely asinine to assign the actions of a few whack-jobs to all Christians.
originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: DJW001
USSR wanted world domination.
I don't remember the west sitting idly by as they took over.
originally posted by: DJW001
But Christians do not claim to be killing in the name of their religion.
After 1981, members of groups such as the Army of God began attacking abortion clinics and doctors across the United States. A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ. A group called Concerned Christians was deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would "lead them to heaven".
The motive for anti-abortionist Scott Roeder murdering Wichita doctor George Tiller on 31 May 2009 was the belief that abortion is not only immoral, but also a form of murder under "God's law", irrespective of "man's law" in any country, and that this belief went "hand in hand" with his religious beliefs. The group supporting Roeder proclaimed that any force is "legitimate to protect the life of an unborn child", and called on all Christians to "rise up" and "take action" against threats to Christianity and to unborn life.
On the contrary, Christians who kill doctors and blow up medical clinics in the US DO claim they are acting in the name of their religion and on behalf of God.
References available (in the millions) at Army of God on Google.
There is no universal "religious establishment" in Islam as I'm sure you know. Hundreds of Imams have repeatedly condemned these activities.
It's as ludicrous to blame Muslims in Jordan for terrorists beheading Copts in Libya as it would be to blame Lithuanian Orthodox for the Army of God's actions in the US.
Why haven't more Christians condemned murder and mayhem committed in the name of the Christian God?
Pope John Paul II made many apologies. During his long reign as Pope, he apologized to Jews, Galileo, women, people convicted by the Inquisition, Muslims killed by the Crusaders and almost everyone who had allegedly suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church over the years. Even before he became the Pope, he was a prominent editor and supporter of initiatives like the Letter of Reconciliation of the Polish Bishops to the German Bishops from 1965. As Pope, he officially made public apologies for over 100 of these wrongdoings, including:
The conquest of Mesoamerica by Spain in the name of the Church
The legal process on the Italian scientist and philosopher Galileo Galilei, himself a devout Catholic, around 1633 (31 October 1992).
Catholics' involvement with the African slave trade (9 August 1993).
The Church's role in burnings at the stake and the religious wars that followed the Protestant Reformation (May 1995, in the Czech Republic).
The injustices committed against women, the violation of women's rights and for the historical denigration of women (29 May 1995, in a "letter to women").
The inactivity and silence of many Catholics during the Holocaust (16 March 1998)
For the execution of Jan Hus in 1415 (18 December 1999 in Prague). When John Paul II visited Prague in 1990s, he requested experts in this matter "to define with greater clarity the position held by Jan Hus among the Church's reformers, and acknowledged that "independently of the theological convictions he defended, Hus cannot be denied integrity in his personal life and commitment to the nation's moral education." It was another step in building a bridge between Catholics and Protestants.
For the sins of Catholics throughout the ages for violating "the rights of ethnic groups and peoples, and [for showing] contempt for their cultures and religious traditions". (12 March 2000, during a public Mass of Pardons).
For the actions of the Crusader attack on Constantinople in 1204. To the Patriarch of Constantinople he said "Some memories are especially painful, and some events of the distant past have left deep wounds in the minds and hearts of people to this day. I am thinking of the disastrous sack of the imperial city of Constantinople, which was for so long the bastion of Christianity in the East. It is tragic that the assailants, who had set out to secure free access for Christians to the Holy Land, turned against their own brothers in the faith. The fact that they were Latin Christians fills Catholics with deep regret. How can we fail to see here the mysterium iniquitatis at work in the human heart? ".
Are most people like that? No! Not in EITHER religion. But there's no shortage of people who will draw on the darkest and most evil sections of their books to justify their own hatred, fear and need to control.
originally posted by: DJW001
Don't get me wrong; I don't think Christianity is better than Islam.
All I am doing is pointing out that the West has found new superstitions to justify its own atrocities.
originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: FyreByrd
“Reasoning with God: Reclaiming Shari’ah in the Modern Age”.
Don't know what that book is about...but the title...scares me. As soon as the muslims mention their "precious" Sharia...
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information,
which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail
to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is
contempt prior to investigation ."
www.anonpress.org... (a fascinating paper on the origins of the quote and it's misquote)
1. And for the "Islamist" terrorists, the Muslim equivalent of "mainstream religious figures" have done the same thing. So, that settles that then, Islam has "spoken up."
2. Great attempt at false equivalency. Army of God was presented as evidence of a violent organization doing violence in the name of the Christian religion and the Christian God ... NOT as an organization similar in scope or size to ISIL/ISIS/IS. Good try though.
3. Imams issuing fatwas in Iran, Pastors preaching sermons that homosexuals should be killed in the US. What's the difference?
4. ... but all of Islam should stand up and condemn these IS/ISIS/ISIL terrorists and if not, they're co-conspirators? Seems like a double standard is at work here.
5. You polled all Christians? You know what all Christians have said world-wide, all 2 billion of them? Surely you're not serious here.
6. Why would a Caliph (?) apologize for the Arab Empire? Did John Paul apologize for the Empire of Charlemagne or the Norman Conquest? How about the Hundred Years War? (1) You're trying to mix together political conquests with religious ones. (2) Unlike Catholics, most of the world doesn't find saying "I'm sorry" sufficient to wipe away all wrongdoing.
Misquotations and misattributions like this are fairly common, and actually make up a significant portion of the canon of famous quotations.
For instance, Voltaire never wrote some of his most famous words: “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” Voltaire died in 1778, but this quotation dates from 1906.
It was written by a biographer, S.G. Tallentyre, in her book The Friends of Voltaire. In 1935 she explained in a letter to the New York Times that the words were not Voltaire’s. She was trying to describe Voltaire’s attitude, but did not mean to suggest that Voltaire had used those exact words. She explained that they “are rather a paraphrase of Voltaire’s words in the Essay on Tolerance – ‘Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too.’”