Until Shiloh comes

There is a promise at the end of Genesis that the sceptre will not depart from Judah “until Shiloh comes”. (Genesis ch49 vv8-12)
What is meant by the coming of Shiloh?

In the history of Israel, before David’s time, Shiloh was the resting-place and home of the Ark of the Covenant and the Tabernacle that went with it.
In fact it’s possible that the name comes from the verb “to rest”.
This was the symbol of the presence of the God who had accompanied Israel from Sinai.
As long as the tribes of Israel had no permanent central government, the practice of common worship at Shiloh and other places was their main bond of unity.

According to tradition, the division of the land by Joshua was carried out at Shiloh.
For most of the period of Judges, Shiloh was in the happy state of “the land which has no history”.
The routine of worship and offerings and consultation of God continued without much incident.

Shiloh comes under the spotlight again in Samuel’s time.
The two sons of Eli, the “worthless men” Hophni and Phinehas, were making themselves notorious by their abuse of power.
They would lie with the women who served at the entrance to the tent of meeting.
When people came to offer sacrifice, these priests would take their share of the offering in a very arbitrary way. Their servant would come along while the meat was being boiled, thrust a three-pronged fork into the cauldron, and pull out for their benefit whatever the fork seized.
So a prophet of God warned Eli that the priests of his line would be deposed from their work. (1 Samuel ch2)

Then came the Philistines.
The ark of the covenant was brought from Shiloh to play its part in the battle, and was then lost (for the moment) when the Israelites were defeated.
At some point Shiloh itself was destroyed, and this probably happened shortly afterwards.
For during Saul’s reign, David found the priests of the Lord serving the Presence of the Lord at Nob, which implies that they found refuge there after being displaced from Shiloh.

For Jeremiah, the destruction of Shiloh was a moral warning.
The Lord had brought it about because of the wickedness of Israel.
The fact that the “name” of the Lord was dwelling there did not give it any immunity.
If the people of Jerusalem did not learn to mend their ways, then the Temple of Jerusalem would go the same way. (Jeremiah ch7 vv12-14)

Coming back to the opening question; what would the “coming of Shiloh” mean?
The standard assumption in modern commentating is that this Genesis passage in praise of Judah was compiled at a time when the kingdom of David had already been established.
In other words, at a time when Shiloh had been destroyed.
Yet the commentators fail to see what seems to me to be the obvious implication.
Written at a time when Shiloh was no more, the phrase “until Shiloh comes” would mean “until Shiloh comes back”.
That is, the return of the state of affairs which Shiloh represents.

This does not mean the “bad” Shiloh of the days of the sons of Eli.
The state of Shiloh, as an ideal, was a time when God (as represented by the Ark) was ruling his people directly, without the intervention of kings.
Therefore “until Shiloh comes” means “until there is a return to direct rule”.
The message is that the house of David will be kings as long as kings are needed, but the time will come when the necessity for kings has disappeared, for God will rule himself.
That will be “Shiloh”. The true state of “rest” in the dwelling-place of God.

To a certain extent this is true already, from the Christian viewpoint.
When God guides his people through the Spirit which he gives them and their local ministers, this is closer to “direct rule” than when he was governing them through kings.
But it would be fulfilled in a more complete sense by the scene at the end of Revelation, when God is “present with his people for evermore”.

In both senses, the “direct rule” of God works through Christ.
Which partly vindicates, after all, the traditional Christian assumption that “Shiloh” is meant as an oblique name for the Messiah.

I think it is all in your imagination and the only interputation that can be accepted is the popular one. You are just reading too much into it.jk

Shiloh means "that is his"

a reply to: deadeyedick
Touche/.
But the fact that Shiloh had already been destroyed when the prediction was made (a point which got forgotten later) does provide a sensible reason for the "comes back" interpretation.

I believe Shiloh represents the bride.

The land with no history .. very poetic... I like it a lot.
The people were unified by that place in away that Mecca unifies Muslims am i right?
Maybe it is back in the form of mecca? Well until we carved up the middle east anyway.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa
I borrowed "land with no history" from somewhere, but I was quoting from memory.
Yes, Mecca does something similar for a different religion.

a reply to: Michaelfunction
Could you spell out some reasons for identifying Shiloh with the bride? Where has she been mentioned in the context?

a reply to: DISRAELI

It is not referencing a land but what it takes to rule the land. In a way you could say it is land in this particular verse but i think it is a tool or weapon or power of some kind. I say we keep our eyes to the skies this month. Thors hammer is nearing.

Of coarse for my interputation to be true that would mean yet another scribe left off a letter at the end.

I think the biggest point to take away is that it is his ...

a reply to: deadeyedick
Your last paragraph is the most relevant, because it is a common line of interpretation.
(I still think, though, that rabbis etc. would not have been looking for that kind of explanation if they had realised that Shiloh had been swept away by the time this prediction was made)

I believe in Daniel's vision, when the hands are raised to heaven. And also in John's vision, with only one hand being raised to heaven. I believe that Messiah represents one hand that has been raised, and I believe the other in Revelation with only one hand being raised is the bride. This I believe is the mystery of God that has been sealed, is the marriage the oneness of Godhead Also I see prophetically that Messiah Ben Joesph also being tied to Shiloh because the city of Shiloh was in the land of Ephraim. The tribe that ruled the tent in Shiloh was Joesph and later would be taken away. But then a prophecy of promise is to be restored in the later days. And I see the story of Rebecca at the well and given gifts by the servant of Abraham as being tied to the bride because of the son of promise Isaac. And then I see this prophetically repeat with Joesph given, and taking the role as the Queen next to Pharaoh, and then Pharaoh giving gifts to Joesph, repeating what had been done to Rebecca. I see in this Joesph being tied to the bride and also being tied to Shiloh.And also Jacobs blessing to Joesph who I believe represents the bride. That was transferred over to Ephraim from Jacob. I believe the bride is the one who overcomes, and the marriage is the oneness with God, after overcoming. I see this as a promise from Messiah to the bride for she is without spot and the kingdom of God lives in her and is also what Paul was writing about and calling this a great mystery. I see this as the goal, when Paul spoke of running the race. that when someone fully overcomes that the fullness of the anointing comes into that person, and if and when someone does that its the fullness of the promise and is the bride or Shiloh. I hope this is not to hard to understand for I'm not a good writer. There is more that ties Shiloh to the bride with the feast of tabernacles and the dance of the virgins but that is tied to the high holy days and the day of trumpets representing the marriage supper.