Ideas, Darwin, Islamic Jihad and The Internet

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: gosseyn

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: gosseyn
a reply to: Jamie1

Can you tell us what are the western ideas that should die in your opinion, do you see any ?

The point is it's not my opinion that matters.

The ideas will live an die on their own merit, just like DNA with evolutionary advantage self-perpetuates.

If I could name a western idea that will die it's being politically correct. That idea works in a closed system, like a university, where authority figures can punish those who don't fall in line with the proper thinking.

The internet is exposing the truth behind "political correctness" every day. It's just a tool being used to control people. It's losing it's effectiveness daily.

You seem to have an opinion about the M-E ideas and what people there should think and not think. And as examples of western ideas that should die, I would have chosen colonialism and neocolonialism, the building of weapons always more deadly and inhumane, the superiority complex, the economic model based on debt that just grows and grows and becomes irredeemable, programmed obsolescence, etc... That would make for a better human species.

I'm not sure any of those ideas you stated are exclusively "western."

Although blaming the "west" for these things does get students gold stars on their papers.

You're not sure.

And as for your analogy of ideas behaving like living organisms and subject to the "survival of the fittest", the analogy doesn't work, because ideas are not subject to the environment like living organisms are. Ideas produce their own environment, and they can thrive in it. Human societies are made of culture, of words, symbols and abstract concepts. Some ideas may never die, whether they are harmful or beneficial.

a reply to: Jamie1

According to Darwin, useful idea may derives from stupid ones.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Jamie1

Jihad is exactly what I said it is...

Justified (as implied by righteous), proportionate self defence!!!


If you attempt hit me, I can hit you...
If you attempt stab me, I can stab you...
If you attempt to shoot me, I can shoot you...
If you attempt to kill me, I can kill you...
If you attempt to steal my Land, I can take yours...



It's not my definition either...
The definition existed before anyone alive was even a sperm cell!

Ah Charlie, but just because someone said "he tried to take my land, so I took his", doesn't prove the person actually tried to take his land.

That's what the courts are for!

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Yeah deffo...

It was the most extreme example, and relates to West Bank & Gaza more than a household dispute.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Oh. : )

I don't know. People repeatedly point out that Christianity once struck out to claim the world violently, in a similar fashion, and was successful. The idea behind that force was very similar.

If that idea was successful once, why would it not be now?

Humans have the drive for conquest, just as they always have. Any idea which unites masses to the same vision, and motivates them to action and conquest is "useful".

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Yeah deffo...

It was the most extreme example, and relates to West Bank & Gaza more than a household dispute.

Let's just go with what you're saying.

Who's land was it before the Palestinians claimed it was theirs?

I don't know. I'm just asking.

a reply to: Jamie1

I know you don't want your thread to delve into that topic because that is a completely different line of thinking...


What I said was relevent to changing ideologies... & was given an example of one of the ideas...




I'll give you a short answer...
Israel was given Land... Fairly
They took extra Land in West Bank... Wrongly
Palestine want it back... Justifiably

I won't be replying to anything else in regards to this, not out of rudeness, but because we'll all have are posts removed for doing so.



By the way....
I agree with you to an extent about bad ideas dying out...
Unless they're profitable, or control the masses
Those bad ideas continue, such as Capitalism & Communism.

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: gosseyn

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: gosseyn
a reply to: Jamie1

Can you tell us what are the western ideas that should die in your opinion, do you see any ?

The point is it's not my opinion that matters.

The ideas will live an die on their own merit, just like DNA with evolutionary advantage self-perpetuates.

If I could name a western idea that will die it's being politically correct. That idea works in a closed system, like a university, where authority figures can punish those who don't fall in line with the proper thinking.

The internet is exposing the truth behind "political correctness" every day. It's just a tool being used to control people. It's losing it's effectiveness daily.

You seem to have an opinion about the M-E ideas and what people there should think and not think. And as examples of western ideas that should die, I would have chosen colonialism and neocolonialism, the building of weapons always more deadly and inhumane, the superiority complex, the economic model based on debt that just grows and grows and becomes irredeemable, programmed obsolescence, etc... That would make for a better human species.

I'm not sure any of those ideas you stated are exclusively "western."

Although blaming the "west" for these things does get students gold stars on their papers.

You mean they get stars for telling the truth, instead of the made up lies and fabrications that lead us into illegal wars for corporate profit.

So they bloody should.

Nearly every nutcase that goes on an islamic driven shooting spree or blows themself up, nearly always states that the wests interventions into muslim lands is one of the prime causes that the west is a target. Not to mention the USA's unswerving and biased support of the zionists in Israel. To deny those truths is as dumb as the people that kill themselves and others for "God".

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Yeah deffo...

It was the most extreme example, and relates to West Bank & Gaza more than a household dispute.

Let's just go with what you're saying.

Who's land was it before the Palestinians claimed it was theirs?

I don't know. I'm just asking.

The Palestinians didnt "claim the land", the land was cut up and divided by the British. Who later decided to give a part to the jews via the Balfour Declaration. The mess in the middle east is ENTIRELY of the wests manufacture. Now its just a self fulfilling prophecy of revenge for revenge for revenge.

a reply to: Jamie1

Ideas are subject to Darwin's laws of "survival of the fittest." Ideas that are useful to society will have an evolutionary advantage over those that are not.

The first sentence is correct. The second is not.

Correctly speaking, it should read 'ideas that are good at surviving and reproducing in the ambient culture will have an evolutionary advantage over those that aren't".

This makes an enormous difference. It means an idea (let's use the correct word: meme) doesn't have to benefit society to thrive and multiply; it just has to be good at getting picked up and disseminated. It may destroy the ambient culture in the process, thereby destroying itself; or it could be harmless, or just mildly deleterious, and still get along fine.

A lot of bad ideas do very well. It would be begging for a quarrel to list some of them, because these bad ideas are clever memes and have convinced many people that they are actually good ideas. Here's one example that ought to be noncontroversial: fascism is a highly successful meme, or rather complex of memes. It survives as a subculture within the ambient culture when the ambient culture is strong, but can suddenly take over when the ambient culture or society is weak. Then you get a Nazi-type state, which flares up briefly and collapses in chaos and violence. But even amid the ruins, the subculture of fascism survives, and rises again when conditions for it are right. It's bad for everybody in the long run, but that hasn't killed it yet.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Vasa Croe

If it's in the moment then you continue until you have been justifiably pleased...


If the struggle ends, and the transgressors apologise, the Islamic thing to do is to forgive and allow Allah to deal with it on Judgement Day...

As in if you attempt to stab me and fail, I would have the attempt to stab you.....what if I succeed? Do you get another shot at it?

As a human yes I could have another go, but it wouldn't be considered Jihad...
Jihad would be your self defensive actions...
Anything else is just a violent transgression from the original wrong doer.

Many thanks!

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: gosseyn

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: gosseyn
a reply to: Jamie1

Can you tell us what are the western ideas that should die in your opinion, do you see any ?

The point is it's not my opinion that matters.

The ideas will live an die on their own merit, just like DNA with evolutionary advantage self-perpetuates.

If I could name a western idea that will die it's being politically correct. That idea works in a closed system, like a university, where authority figures can punish those who don't fall in line with the proper thinking.

The internet is exposing the truth behind "political correctness" every day. It's just a tool being used to control people. It's losing it's effectiveness daily.

You seem to have an opinion about the M-E ideas and what people there should think and not think. And as examples of western ideas that should die, I would have chosen colonialism and neocolonialism, the building of weapons always more deadly and inhumane, the superiority complex, the economic model based on debt that just grows and grows and becomes irredeemable, programmed obsolescence, etc... That would make for a better human species.

I'm not sure any of those ideas you stated are exclusively "western."

Although blaming the "west" for these things does get students gold stars on their papers.

You say 'blaming' ? To you, criticizing some of the ideas and concepts that the west has produced equals to 'blaming' ? Are you suggesting that everything is perfect and that the west is in no need of any adjustment ?

originally posted by: gosseyn

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: gosseyn

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: gosseyn
a reply to: Jamie1

Can you tell us what are the western ideas that should die in your opinion, do you see any ?

The point is it's not my opinion that matters.

The ideas will live an die on their own merit, just like DNA with evolutionary advantage self-perpetuates.

If I could name a western idea that will die it's being politically correct. That idea works in a closed system, like a university, where authority figures can punish those who don't fall in line with the proper thinking.

The internet is exposing the truth behind "political correctness" every day. It's just a tool being used to control people. It's losing it's effectiveness daily.

You seem to have an opinion about the M-E ideas and what people there should think and not think. And as examples of western ideas that should die, I would have chosen colonialism and neocolonialism, the building of weapons always more deadly and inhumane, the superiority complex, the economic model based on debt that just grows and grows and becomes irredeemable, programmed obsolescence, etc... That would make for a better human species.

I'm not sure any of those ideas you stated are exclusively "western."

Although blaming the "west" for these things does get students gold stars on their papers.

You're not sure.

And as for your analogy of ideas behaving like living organisms and subject to the "survival of the fittest", the analogy doesn't work, because ideas are not subject to the environment like living organisms are. Ideas produce their own environment, and they can thrive in it. Human societies are made of culture, of words, symbols and abstract concepts. Some ideas may never die, whether they are harmful or beneficial.

If the ideas help the organisms procreate, and the organism pass down the ideas through culture, then for sure the ideas are just like DNA. The environment IS the culture.

Now with the internet, the culture is online, and there will be a harsh judgment of stupid ideas very quickly because better, competitive opposing ideas are in play.

Why do you think communist dictators censor western movies, etc?

Communism is on it's death bed.
Tyranny is dead.
Killing people over their religion is dying.
Bigotry is dying.

The feedback loop for stupid ideas has been accelerated by the internet.

originally posted by: OneManArmy

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Yeah deffo...

It was the most extreme example, and relates to West Bank & Gaza more than a household dispute.

Let's just go with what you're saying.

Who's land was it before the Palestinians claimed it was theirs?

I don't know. I'm just asking.

The Palestinians didnt "claim the land", the land was cut up and divided by the British. Who later decided to give a part to the jews via the Balfour Declaration. The mess in the middle east is ENTIRELY of the wests manufacture. Now its just a self fulfilling prophecy of revenge for revenge for revenge.

Perhaps from the British/French colonialism?

WW1 was a major turning point in the Middle East.

originally posted by: Jamie1


Communism is on it's death bed.
Tyranny is dead.
Killing people over their religion is dying.
Bigotry is dying.

The feedback loop for stupid ideas has been accelerated by the internet.

You are joking right?

Communism builds most of the west's consumables.
Tell the people living in Syria that tyranny is dead. Or the people in Ukraine.
Tell the people in Iraq that killing people over religion is dying.
Tell the people that blame immigrants for all their problems that bigotry is dying.

None of those things are dying.

In the very next sentence you write the reason why.

Which is true, but then so has much information seen the light of day that never would have otherwise.
The internet is a double edged sword, it can serve good(ie transparency of information, sharing of good ideas) and it can serve bad(paedophiles, the proliferation of lies and bad ideas).
Its up to us to educate OURSELVES to find wisdom in the information ocean. Using critical thought, evidence and not blind faith. That it seems, is the challenge.

Would the OP be so kind as to respond to my post? It took me some time and thought to write it.

Thanks in advance.