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Ideas, Darwin, Islamic Jihad and The Internet

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posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 01:51 PM
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Just a thought that occurred to me.

Ideas are subject to Darwin's laws of "survival of the fittest." Ideas that are useful to society will have an evolutionary advantage over those that are not.

The internet, combined with 1st Amendment rights, ensures that ideas can be spread at the speed of light.

Stupid ideas will die. Useful ideas will survive and be passed down.

Be offended over what other people doodle on a piece of paper is a stupid idea. It won't survive. The extinction of that idea is inevitable.

The idea of Islamic Jihad in general is a "stupid" idea in the context of that idea surviving. It won't. There is no evolutionary advantage to that idea.

What we're also seeing is "politically correct" ideas being forced to stand on their own, rather then being forced on us by the MSM and academia.

Those ideas will survive or die on their own merits. "Social shaming" and laws banning certain "offensive" speech may prolong the life of non-useful ideas, but that won't keep them from dying.

What we're in the middle of now is the changing of the guard. The establishments that benefited by promoting "stupid" ideas are being forced to watch their "stupid" ideas be evaluated on the global stage of the internet.

Dumb ideas can't be saved simply by attempts to force people into believing them, or trying to portray them as a bad person if they do NOT believe them.

Shining the light on bad ideas is what's going to speed up their inevitable death.

Example of an idea with no evolutionary advantage here.
edit on 13-1-2015 by Jamie1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

The Western perception of "Islamic Jihad" will be killed off...


True Jihad will live forever...
As it is righteous & proportionate self defence...

& the day that dies, is when tyranny Rules!!!



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:07 PM
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I think what we are seeing now is like a renaissance. The internet has brought information to the world on an unprecedented level. News that is censored in one country we can get from another.
The lies that politicians have gotten away with for centuries are now open for global scrutiny. Because those lies dont stand up is why the numbers of people that vote is falling dramatically. The people have seen behind the wizard of oz's curtain. People are waking up, in very large numbers.
The internet has taught me one very important lesson. Trust no one, question everything. Especially those that claim to have my best interests at heart, or those whose integrity is taken for granted.
Its safer that way.
edit on 20151America/Chicago01pm1pmTue, 13 Jan 2015 14:10:44 -06000115 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Jamie1

The Western perception of "Islamic Jihad" will be killed off...


True Jihad will live forever...
As it is righteous & proportionate self defence...

& the day that dies, is when tyranny Rules!!!


I'm not sure I agree.

We're in a new era.

Righteous and proportionate self-defense is an idea that depends on the perceptions of those doing the "self-defense."

The idea of justified self-defense will survive. That idea has an evolutionary advantage.

I would predict that ideas that value cooperation and compromise will eventually win out over True Jihad. That doesn't mean tyranny rules.

That only means that people are going to have different perceptions and beliefs, and that the beliefs with the most utility will win out over those that are less useful.

What is your definition of True Jihad?



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:15 PM
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I like the concept, but there is also the readers of these ideas and the intellectual level they are on.

If you can present a great idea in a dumbed down manner then it is likely more will be able to follow it. Great thinkers of the past have presented many great ideas that would be way over the heads of most.

I think the presentation of the ideas are just as important as the idea itself...if you can't reach the masses with an understandable method then the idea falls flat either way.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

Jihad is exactly what I said it is...

Justified (as implied by righteous), proportionate self defence!!!


If you attempt hit me, I can hit you...
If you attempt stab me, I can stab you...
If you attempt to shoot me, I can shoot you...
If you attempt to kill me, I can kill you...
If you attempt to steal my Land, I can take yours...



It's not my definition either...
The definition existed before anyone alive was even a sperm cell!
edit on 13-1-2015 by CharlieSpeirs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Jamie1

Jihad is exactly what I said it is...

Justified (as implied by righteous), proportionate self defence!!!


If you attempt hit me, I can hit you...
If you attempt stab me, I can stab you...
If you attempt to shoot me, I can shoot you...
If you attempt to kill me, I can kill you...
If you attempt to steal my Land, I can take yours...



It's not my definition either...
The definition existed before anyone alive was even a sperm cell!


I was going to say that proportionate and justified are pretty much the same thing in this context.
A proportionate response would be justified by the extent of the threat. Which would be purely subjective given the situation and the persons ability to think under stress.
edit on 20151America/Chicago01pm1pmTue, 13 Jan 2015 14:26:15 -06000115 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Jamie1

Jihad is exactly what I said it is...

Justified (as implied by righteous), proportionate self defence!!!


If you attempt hit me, I can hit you...
If you attempt stab me, I can stab you...
If you attempt to shoot me, I can shoot you...
If you attempt to kill me, I can kill you...
If you attempt to steal my Land, I can take yours...



It's not my definition either...
The definition existed before anyone alive was even a sperm cell!


Honest question here, but if I attempt to kill you and fail, you have the right to attempt to kill me.....what if you fail....is it one for one action, or does it continue until one or the other of us dies? Same with all the others you mentioned....just wondering if it is a single eye for and eye attempt, or if it is supposed to continue until one gets their way. And can it escalate in this sense? As in if you attempt to stab me and fail, I would have the attempt to stab you.....what if I succeed? Do you get another shot at it?

I know it sounds like a silly question, but I typically don't quit on something when it comes to things as serious as those mentioned, so if anyone attempted to do any of those things to me I would likely continue to attempt to do them back until my own personal outcome is final.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Jamie1

Jihad is exactly what I said it is...

Justified (as implied by righteous), proportionate self defence!!!


If you attempt hit me, I can hit you...
If you attempt stab me, I can stab you...
If you attempt to shoot me, I can shoot you...
If you attempt to kill me, I can kill you...
If you attempt to steal my Land, I can take yours...



It's not my definition either...
The definition existed before anyone alive was even a sperm cell!


Honest question here, but if I attempt to kill you and fail, you have the right to attempt to kill me.....what if you fail....is it one for one action, or does it continue until one or the other of us dies? Same with all the others you mentioned....just wondering if it is a single eye for and eye attempt, or if it is supposed to continue until one gets their way. And can it escalate in this sense? As in if you attempt to stab me and fail, I would have the attempt to stab you.....what if I succeed? Do you get another shot at it?

I know it sounds like a silly question, but I typically don't quit on something when it comes to things as serious as those mentioned, so if anyone attempted to do any of those things to me I would likely continue to attempt to do them back until my own personal outcome is final.


I think you may have misunderstood what he was saying. What you are explaining is revenge, he was talking about self defense in a life or death situation.
Revenge is murder, self defense is not.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

It’s the West and the true Muslims that must fight a REAL and just JIHAD against the anti-evolutionary concept of jihad by these foolish Jihadists

It will go the way of Nazism

The problem here is that we can’t trust the West to really fight this war because they are doing surreptitious sinister acts and using the useful idiot Jihadists as a cover



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

If it's in the moment then you continue until you have been justifiably pleased...


If the struggle ends, and the transgressors apologise, the Islamic thing to do is to forgive and allow Allah to deal with it on Judgement Day...


As in if you attempt to stab me and fail, I would have the attempt to stab you.....what if I succeed? Do you get another shot at it?


As a human yes I could have another go, but it wouldn't be considered Jihad...
Jihad would be your self defensive actions...
Anything else is just a violent transgression from the original wrong doer.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 05:37 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Jamie1

Jihad is exactly what I said it is...

Justified (as implied by righteous), proportionate self defence!!!


If you attempt hit me, I can hit you...
If you attempt stab me, I can stab you...
If you attempt to shoot me, I can shoot you...
If you attempt to kill me, I can kill you...
If you attempt to steal my Land, I can take yours...



It's not my definition either...
The definition existed before anyone alive was even a sperm cell!


Yes, exactly what I was referring too when I said ideas are subject to evolutionary survival of the fittest principles.

The "if you do this to me, I can do it back to you" is an antiquated idea that's been replaced by a civil and criminal justice system.

The Jihad idea depends on perceptions.

The modern justice systems gives people a chance to argue their case in court.

In the antiquated system, the mere claim of being wronged can be used to justify killing somebody else.

Not that easy to do in the modern justice system.

The Jihad model that you described will die and be replaced. It's been around forever because it's been abused by people in power to control others.

That's ending now, with the popularity of the internet. Few progressive thinking people take it seriously.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

Jihad will never die because there will always be Humans willing to fight back against an oppressor...


It can become unnecassary...
But that's in a fantasy utopia that will never exist...


So no, Jihad will never die.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

Can you tell us what are the western ideas that should die in your opinion, do you see any ?



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I like the concept, but there is also the readers of these ideas and the intellectual level they are on.

If you can present a great idea in a dumbed down manner then it is likely more will be able to follow it. Great thinkers of the past have presented many great ideas that would be way over the heads of most.

I think the presentation of the ideas are just as important as the idea itself...if you can't reach the masses with an understandable method then the idea falls flat either way.


Great point!

Presentation of the idea is as important as the ideas themselves.

And all ideas must be presented in a way, and have a utility, that will benefit the masses as a whole. Otherwise, the masses will never perceive the idea as being a great idea.

Case in point.

Islamic Jihadist will never convince the masses that killing over cartoons is a great idea. The idea will eventually die. Maybe much quicker with the internet to help spread the dumb ideas more quickly.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: gosseyn
a reply to: Jamie1

Can you tell us what are the western ideas that should die in your opinion, do you see any ?


The point is it's not my opinion that matters.

The ideas will live an die on their own merit, just like DNA with evolutionary advantage self-perpetuates.

If I could name a western idea that will die it's being politically correct. That idea works in a closed system, like a university, where authority figures can punish those who don't fall in line with the proper thinking.

The internet is exposing the truth behind "political correctness" every day. It's just a tool being used to control people. It's losing it's effectiveness daily.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Jamie1

Jihad will never die because there will always be Humans willing to fight back against an oppressor...


It can become unnecassary...
But that's in a fantasy utopia that will never exist...


So no, Jihad will never die.


It's died in my neighborhood. Not sure where you live, but people where I live aren't vigilantes.

And the logical end game is one where the oppressed will either kill their oppressor, die out, be wiped out, or learn to assimilate into their oppressor's world.

A never-ending battle against a perceived wrong, or actual wrong, if not winnable, has less utility than negotiating a compromise.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: gosseyn
a reply to: Jamie1

Can you tell us what are the western ideas that should die in your opinion, do you see any ?


The point is it's not my opinion that matters.

The ideas will live an die on their own merit, just like DNA with evolutionary advantage self-perpetuates.

If I could name a western idea that will die it's being politically correct. That idea works in a closed system, like a university, where authority figures can punish those who don't fall in line with the proper thinking.

The internet is exposing the truth behind "political correctness" every day. It's just a tool being used to control people. It's losing it's effectiveness daily.


You seem to have an opinion about the M-E ideas and what people there should think and not think. And as examples of western ideas that should die, I would have chosen colonialism and neocolonialism, the building of weapons always more deadly and inhumane, the superiority complex, the economic model based on debt that just grows and grows and becomes irredeemable, programmed obsolescence, etc... That would make for a better human species.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 06:57 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

Your OP echoes some of Dan Dennett's thoughts - Its only a 17 minute TED-Talk

Dan Dennett: Dangerous memes


Replicating ideas passing from brain to brain - i.e. memes

"stupid" ideas = memes



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: gosseyn

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: gosseyn
a reply to: Jamie1

Can you tell us what are the western ideas that should die in your opinion, do you see any ?


The point is it's not my opinion that matters.

The ideas will live an die on their own merit, just like DNA with evolutionary advantage self-perpetuates.

If I could name a western idea that will die it's being politically correct. That idea works in a closed system, like a university, where authority figures can punish those who don't fall in line with the proper thinking.

The internet is exposing the truth behind "political correctness" every day. It's just a tool being used to control people. It's losing it's effectiveness daily.


You seem to have an opinion about the M-E ideas and what people there should think and not think. And as examples of western ideas that should die, I would have chosen colonialism and neocolonialism, the building of weapons always more deadly and inhumane, the superiority complex, the economic model based on debt that just grows and grows and becomes irredeemable, programmed obsolescence, etc... That would make for a better human species.


I'm not sure any of those ideas you stated are exclusively "western."

Although blaming the "west" for these things does get students gold stars on their papers.



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