I'd Like To See Your Debunker Credentials, Please.

Nearly 50 years of seeing the same old crap week in and week out, becoming intimately familiar with the recurring fakes and faults, and not being any more enlightened now than I was five decades ago qualifies me to debunk any weak UFO case as hard as I possibly can.

The sad fact is, even the "good" UFO cases have failed to provide us with any answers. The sooner and harder we burn the lousy cases to the ground, the better.

originally posted by: steamiron
If your mind tells you a mothership hovered over a city and didnt make worldwide front page news well you NEED to ease up on the YT ufo vids.

Well, forgetting the extreme (hence irrelevant) example of mother ships hovering over cities for a moment, I agree with the point that there are ways for any person (credentialed expert or not) to use their own critical thinking skills in helping to decide whether a sighting could be explained as something mundane or not.

a reply to: Blue Shift

This is exactly what they want. They don't want disclosure or any form of enlightenment. They want us kept in an infinite loop of disinformation, fakes, possibles, rumors, etc, the public to look at CTs like they're crazy because of the hoaxes, the media making believers look crazy. People in the "know" coming out with claims, it's the greatest show on Earth, sometimes I wonder if them "covering up aliens" is a distraction as well....

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
This is exactly what they want.

Who? Everybody but me? Every university and government on Earth?

Not everybody can be in on it. And there's no way that I can assume that as bad as the government is at running things and keeping secrets that THIS particular thing they're idiot savants at? There's no way. One leaked secret with decent hard, verifiable evidence would blow it all up. And that hasn't happened.

Ignorance and incompetence are always a much more likely answer than efficient, 100 percent effective cover-ups.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Yes. Clearly your neighbor stuffing Ring Dings into his mouth is in on a conspiracy...

I don't mean the average media-fat individual, I mean people high up. Not the president, or a records clerk at Nasa. People who simply need to know, because maybe technology is more advanced than we're led to believe, so keeping a coverup (as well as numerous disinfo campaigns) really isn't beyond their capabilities.

Debunking or just not believing all comes down to how much evidence does one need to be convinced. For some all it takes is a story, for others it takes much more, and the old saying from Carl Sagan "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" really plays well here.

So I might be crazy or delusional because I need more evidence, but I do not think so...

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Nearly 50 years of seeing the same old crap week in and week out, becoming intimately familiar with the recurring fakes and faults, and not being any more enlightened now than I was five decades ago qualifies me to debunk any weak UFO case as hard as I possibly can.

The sad fact is, even the "good" UFO cases have failed to provide us with any answers. The sooner and harder we burn the lousy cases to the ground, the better.

Today our best evidence is eye witness reports and pictures/video, and if we go back 6000 years to the dawn of modern civilization during that whole time nothing else but eye witness reports and pictures...

Is it too much to ask for a little bit more so we can pull this out of the same category as angels, big foot and elves?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Is it too much to ask for a little bit more so we can pull this out of the same category as angels, big foot and elves?

Bigfoot is real.

originally posted by: Puppytoven

I look at all these YT Channels getting listed and have to pose that same question: What makes the people saying this stuff is fake credible? What if they are schizophrenics who's reality has no aliens in it? What if these people haven't taken their meds and are convinced Youtube itself is fake?

So good point, and I would like to also point out that delusional schizophrenic is not something that is limited to just UFOs if one has it since it is there all the time in everything they do. Since I do not manifest any signs of mental health issues in the rest of my life outside of debunking it stands to reason that I do not go crazy only when the letters UFO appears.

With that said, I would like to say that I have met a lot of "believers" and in many cases they got some really weird things going on in their head that manifests all the time, in all aspects of their lives, SOoooo I'm not totally sure your OP is targeted at th right group...hehe

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Is it too much to ask for a little bit more so we can pull this out of the same category as angels, big foot and elves?

Bigfoot is real.

DNA would make it real, I agree.... got some?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Thousands of sightings, many by credible people. So what is it just some mass hallucination? Do you believe in any conspiracy theories? If so, have any evidence?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Is it too much to ask for a little bit more so we can pull this out of the same category as angels, big foot and elves?

Bigfoot is real.

DNA would make it real, I agree.... got some?

I'll send you my underwear.



George Burns reference.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Is it too much to ask for a little bit more so we can pull this out of the same category as angels, big foot and elves?

I'm even willing to give some of the photos the benefit of the doubt. They're "real." But that still doesn't get us anywhere. Real what? Aliens? There is not one tiny shred of good evidence linking any UFO with any hypothetical alien.

I understand that just because there's no hard evidence for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Dreams, for instance. Nobody has even gotten a good photo of a dream. But because we've all pretty much experienced dreams, we accept that they're real. Unfortunately, I don't think they're in the same category of reality.

I guess that's why I keep coming back to the idea that real UFOs represent a hint or a shadow of something that is simply beyond our ability to understand because we're tiny little transient, small-brained creatures clinging to a little wet rock in space, and are certainly not as smart as it is possible to be. But that's our lot, and we're stuck with it. So we see a UFO, and we think it's some kind of flying machine, because we're familiar with those, but that just shows how much we know. Not much.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
...I'm even willing to give some of the photos the benefit of the doubt. They're "real." But that still doesn't get us anywhere. Real what? Aliens? There is not one tiny shred of good evidence linking any UFO with any hypothetical alien.

Right. It may be the case that the best UFO cases are cases where the mundane explanations are very hard to believe. However, that does NOT automatically mean that the lack of a mundane explanation is proof of aliens.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Xtrozero

Thousands of sightings, many by credible people. So what is it just some mass hallucination? Do you believe in any conspiracy theories? If so, have any evidence?

I'm also a Psychology major among many other things like having 9000 hours of flying under my belt. So when I look at all this I get a few warning flags.

1. Ancient drawings are not proof of anything, they can be angels, aliens, whatever. We really do not know what the artist were really trying to do and so it is all assumptions that we make... Assumptions are NOT very good evidence.

2. Going back 70 years we saw the dawn of modern Ufology and it was extremely simple. Simple ships, simple humanoid aliens, simple concepts etc. As we past though the decades since then you can see the evolution of this concept grow from the very simple to better and better ship, stories etc to what we have today of advance complex ships, wide verity of aliens, complex story lines etc. This is a classic example of a socially created phenomena that people feed off each other within the story line.

3. UFO is just that...unidentified and they all are UNIDENTIFIED even with credible people, so once again we rely on assumptions to explain it all then we call it a fact. I can say they are angels and be as credible.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Not true. If you look at past UFO reports they weren't always floating sailing ships or angels with swords.

Ancient Encounter Reports

What does psychology say about believing something just because it's commonly accepted?

originally posted by: Blue Shift
But that's our lot, and we're stuck with it. So we see a UFO, and we think it's some kind of flying machine, because we're familiar with those, but that just shows how much we know. Not much.

I also find it strange that aliens are mostly humanoid like somehow humans are the blue print were all intelligent space faring races come from...rather egocentric I say and makes one go Hmmmm.

There is a good reason why most advance life on earth have two eyes...we have a common ancestor at some point that had two eyes. When we go back to snowball earth 650 million years ago, most advance life was reset, but before that creatures had multiple sets of eyes and evolution went in unlimited directions. I would be really surprised that another planet would evolve anything close to what is on earth.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme

Ancient Encounter Reports

What does psychology say about believing something just because it's commonly accepted?

Looking though his document all the pictures are either modern depictions of what the text says or our assumptions of what the picture suggests. We also place our assumptions on references to Dragons, Chariots, Monster, etc to mean aliens.

I'm not debating whether or not aliens exists, I'm saying we have very little past assumptions as evidence that they exists.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Xtrozero

Thousands of sightings, many by credible people. So what is it just some mass hallucination? Do you believe in any conspiracy theories? If so, have any evidence?

Sightings of what? Oh, look at that thing in the sky! That's proof that extraterrestrials are here abducting people! No, it's not.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Nearly 50 years of seeing the same old crap week in and week out, becoming intimately familiar with the recurring fakes and faults, and not being any more enlightened now than I was five decades ago qualifies me to debunk any weak UFO case as hard as I possibly can.

The sad fact is, even the "good" UFO cases have failed to provide us with any answers. The sooner and harder we burn the lousy cases to the ground, the better.

Well said. I'll take it a step further and say we need to burn it all and start over by putting extra-terrestrials at the bottom of the list of possibilities (note I didn't say to remove it from the list). That path didn't lead anywhere. Let's take a new path or several new paths of inquiry.