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I'd Like To See Your Debunker Credentials, Please.

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posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Is it too much to ask for a little bit more so we can pull this out of the same category as angels, big foot and elves?

I'm even willing to give some of the photos the benefit of the doubt. They're "real." But that still doesn't get us anywhere. Real what? Aliens? There is not one tiny shred of good evidence linking any UFO with any hypothetical alien.

I understand that just because there's no hard evidence for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Dreams, for instance. Nobody has even gotten a good photo of a dream. But because we've all pretty much experienced dreams, we accept that they're real. Unfortunately, I don't think they're in the same category of reality.

I guess that's why I keep coming back to the idea that real UFOs represent a hint or a shadow of something that is simply beyond our ability to understand because we're tiny little transient, small-brained creatures clinging to a little wet rock in space, and are certainly not as smart as it is possible to be. But that's our lot, and we're stuck with it. So we see a UFO, and we think it's some kind of flying machine, because we're familiar with those, but that just shows how much we know. Not much.


Well said. I think that pretty much explains the situation in which we find ourselves. Unfortunately, literalists have glommed on to the most simple, literal explanation and won't let go despite the fact that it has not yielded any fruit. In that sense, they are like religious fundamentalists. They demonstrate the same characteristics including literalism, lack of ability to reason critically, rampant paranoia, and a virulent hatred for anyone who doesn't accept their beliefs as fact.




posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Xtrozero

...


2. Going back 70 years we saw the dawn of modern Ufology and it was extremely simple. Simple ships, simple humanoid aliens, simple concepts etc. As we past though the decades since then you can see the evolution of this concept grow from the very simple to better and better ship, stories etc to what we have today of advance complex ships, wide verity of aliens, complex story lines etc. This is a classic example of a socially created phenomena that people feed off each other within the story line.

...


You're right and we can go back much further to stories about abductions by faeries. The stories are always about a group of beings who are a bit more advanced than humans. There are two variations: the beings are here to help us or the beings are here to hurt us. I agree that this is a classic example of a self-feeding socially created phenomena. That is not to say that some people aren't experiencing strange things but the interpretation of those experiences is socially engineered.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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a reply to: Puppytoven

Well I double majored...Quantum Physics/Mechanics and Industrial Psychology. I worked as a contractor for the Government and Applied Materials. I was also a bx therapist after I left Corp America. So I'm rather adept at sifting through the bs. If that's using sleeping people to plot star maps to mental illness...I smell it like a stripper does a fool on payday.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:50 PM
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originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
What does psychology say about believing something just because it's commonly accepted?

See my comments about dreams. No hard evidence, and we only believe they exist because pretty much everybody experiences them.

So to a certain degree, reality is a consensus, although these days we like to try to back up our definitions of reality with some empirical data, which is debated by people until they decide it's valid or not. Debating about what's real and what isn't is something we humans have done since the beginning.

However, just because something isn't strictly "real," doesn't mean it can't affect you. If a bunch of religious extremists believe you've somehow you've offended their prophet, a guy who says he had a crazy vision of some kind that a lot of people believe, then they'll kill you. And it doesn't matter if it's real or it ain't. You're just as dead.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

I think it's funny many people believe that without a doubt, 911 was an inside job. Despite there being no "official" evidence. Among other theories. So what are thousands of cases describing encounters with unknown entities? All lies, hoaxes, misunderstandings? Something's up, and I think even the conspiracy theories half the time are meant to send people in the other direction.




posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Blue Shift

I think it's funny many people believe that without a doubt, 911 was an inside job. Despite there being no "official" evidence. Among other theories. So what are thousands of cases describing encounters with unknown entities? All lies, hoaxes, misunderstandings? Something's up, and I think even the conspiracy theories half the time are meant to send people in the other direction.



There's no "official" evidence b/c they never changed the "official" story. There are however 100's of credible facts that show it was...



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: Blue Shift

I think it's funny many people believe that without a doubt, 911 was an inside job. Despite there being no "official" evidence. Among other theories. So what are thousands of cases describing encounters with unknown entities? All lies, hoaxes, misunderstandings? Something's up, and I think even the conspiracy theories half the time are meant to send people in the other direction.



911 happened. The building existed and they collapsed. The cause of the collapse can be studied. Where are the "alien craft" and "entities" to study?



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:16 PM
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There are quite a few people on ATS that will yell "Rocks!" or tell yell fake, fraud or scammer, before even looking at any of the evidence.

I always get a chuckle out of those people. To debunk something without taking a real look at the evidence is the essence of stupidity.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: TheArrow

originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: boymonkey74

Squamish. B.C. You can U2U me for a more precise meeting place


That's not all that far away from Portland.

I would only go if there was a money backed assurance that I was going to be seeing an alien, because that's still a 9 hour drive, which I don't mind making if I am going to see an alien, but would be a waste of resources if you were simply having a go at me.


Portland is where the Grimm is at..


edit on Mon, 12 Jan 2015 17:27:27 -0600275America/ChicagoMonday4 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:30 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
There are quite a few people on ATS that will yell "Rocks!" or tell yell fake, fraud or scammer, before even looking at any of the evidence.

I always get a chuckle out of those people. To debunk something without taking a real look at the evidence is the essence of stupidity.


Perhaps you'd care to cite the actual evidence (not claims, but actual evidence) and exactly what it proves.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:35 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: amazing
There are quite a few people on ATS that will yell "Rocks!" or tell yell fake, fraud or scammer, before even looking at any of the evidence.

I always get a chuckle out of those people. To debunk something without taking a real look at the evidence is the essence of stupidity.


Perhaps you'd care to cite the actual evidence (not claims, but actual evidence) and exactly what it proves.


There is multiple evidence of this on ATS, I site it and comment on it when I see it but don't have database and research abitlity to go back in time and look for them. You know it's true though.

If someone says I was abducted, they say they must be mental, and never look at any of the evidence. Or they'll say sleep Paralysis, which it could most likely be, but they'll say it without ever reading the research or account.

Rocks on mars are the best, they'll say...here's an anomaly and then the debunker will yell rock. Sure it could be a rock or a fossil or some mineral that could help future colonists or mining missions...but to yell rock? LOL My response is how much fun these debunkers are a at Geological conferences or events. You can imagine.

Then we'll talk about the possiblity of Aliens coming to Earth and the first response is always, that it's impossible. But that is based on our technology. Going to the moon was impossible a century ago. What might be possible a century from now, a million years from now?

Let's deny ignorance shall we?



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:39 PM
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originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: amazing
There are quite a few people on ATS that will yell "Rocks!" or tell yell fake, fraud or scammer, before even looking at any of the evidence.

I always get a chuckle out of those people. To debunk something without taking a real look at the evidence is the essence of stupidity.


Perhaps you'd care to cite the actual evidence (not claims, but actual evidence) and exactly what it proves.


There is multiple evidence of this on ATS, I site it and comment on it when I see it but don't have database and research abitlity to go back in time and look for them. You know it's true though.

If someone says I was abducted, they say they must be mental, and never look at any of the evidence. Or they'll say sleep Paralysis, which it could most likely be, but they'll say it without ever reading the research or account.

Rocks on mars are the best, they'll say...here's an anomaly and then the debunker will yell rock. Sure it could be a rock or a fossil or some mineral that could help future colonists or mining missions...but to yell rock? LOL My response is how much fun these debunkers are a at Geological conferences or events. You can imagine.

Then we'll talk about the possiblity of Aliens coming to Earth and the first response is always, that it's impossible. But that is based on our technology. Going to the moon was impossible a century ago. What might be possible a century from now, a million years from now?

Let's deny ignorance shall we?


You haven't cited any evidence in this post. You've simply made claims. Do you know the difference between a claim and testable evidence? There's a purple hippopotamus on top of my roof is a claim. I've photographed him on the roof and captured him and he's been examined independently by several zoologists who confirm that he is a hippopotamus and is purple is evidence of the existence of said hippopotamus.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

Actually, that's still a claim.

Pics or it didn't happen bro!




posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:44 PM
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originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: Tangerine

Actually, that's still a claim.

Pics or it didn't happen bro!



I suggest that you take a course in scientific methodology and learn how scientific facts are determined. It's quite interesting.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

*cough*I already do that*cough*

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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edit on 12-1-2015 by amazing because: not worth it



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 06:16 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
There are quite a few people on ATS that will yell "Rocks!" or tell yell fake, fraud or scammer, before even looking at any of the evidence.

I always get a chuckle out of those people. To debunk something without taking a real look at the evidence is the essence of stupidity.


No argument there.

Conversely, how smart is it to believe an extraordinary claim without taking a real look at ALL the evidence, especially the evidence you can see being suppressed by the UFO promoters?



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:16 AM
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a reply to: Tangerine

I mean skeptic in the same sense that it's defined in the dictionary.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:38 AM
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a reply to: Tangerine

He was just stating his credentials when it comes to 9/11 conspiracy. I'm not sure why everyone is taking things so seriously. The fact is: None of us know each other and the internet is a place where anyone can say they are anything. We can either be cynics and start in on why someone is wrong, or we can believe someone is telling the truth until we've heard them out. If things still ring true then cool. But if not then fine. None of it requires the snide commentary or name calling.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 02:48 AM
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originally posted by: Puppytoven
a reply to: Tangerine

He was just stating his credentials when it comes to 9/11 conspiracy. I'm not sure why everyone is taking things so seriously. The fact is: None of us know each other and the internet is a place where anyone can say they are anything. We can either be cynics and start in on why someone is wrong, or we can believe someone is telling the truth until we've heard them out. If things still ring true then cool. But if not then fine. None of it requires the snide commentary or name calling.


I don't recall calling anyone names. Are you suggesting that I have? If so, could you copy and paste a thread in which I called a specific poster a name? If not, why did you imply that I have?

I simply pointed out that whereas buildings collapsed on 911 and the evidence can be examined, there are no aliens or spacecraft to examine. Do you find that to be a snide comment? If so, why?

I'm not interested in guessing whether something "rings true" because that's merely opinion. I'm interested in actual, testable evidence. We've been talking about aliens for decades and no testable evidence proving that they exist has been forthcoming.
edit on 13-1-2015 by Tangerine because: (no reason given)



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