ISIS downs Jordanian F-16, captures pilot

a reply to: Zaphod58

So you're trying to say that Syria parked an advanced AA system in the heart of ISIS held territory, who they were opposing, and ISIS just completely ignored it?

The 'heart of ISIS' is really just Syria. I don't believe any of the propaganda about (I)maginary (S)tates any more than I believe it about any declared "enemy" of The US military vetted as an excuse to invade one more country in the Middle East.

And yes, violating a countries sovereign airspace is still invasion…

a reply to: intrptr

So then if ISIS is just Syria then Syria committed an act of war by attacking into Iraq.

I would love to have an intelligence agency capable of pulling off everything you think they can without being caught.

And if this is just an excuse to attack Syria, it's the worst attack ever.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And if this is just an excuse to attack Syria, it's the worst attack ever.

Bingo.

a reply to: intrptr

Wow. So they're completely ignoring Syrian military installations, the Syrian military, and Syria has completely ignored the air campaign, which has been all over Syrian airspace.

Yeah, sure seems like they're out to destroy Syria to me.

a reply to: Zaphod58

…and Syria has completely ignored the air campaign, which has been all over Syrian airspace.

I doubt the Syrians are "ignoring" it. At least you admit they are being violated "all over".

a reply to: intrptr

They haven't tried to intercept aircraft, and haven't shot down a single aircraft. They may not be ignoring it, but they haven't tried to stop it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Neither is the Imaginary State. Wouldn't be for lack of opportunity either. Got a reason for that?

a reply to: intrptr

Tactics. Their primary antiair weapon is either guns or MANPADS. Precision guided weapons can be dropped out of range of both. Advanced systems have a learning curve. MANPADS and guns don't, so they're far more common.

a reply to: WilliamWAS

Weapons accountability in the Middle East/Africa is almost non existent. Arms float around all the time and many times just "go missing". If anyone remembers, there was a rather large batch of MANPADs that vanished in Libya a couple years ago: security.blogs.cnn.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58

Tactics, hell. If they had the ability they would be using it, especially in what is supposedly 'close support' of Kurds, etc.

a reply to: intrptr

A B-52 at cruising altitude can provide Close Air Support using a JDAM and never get near AA range, except for an advanced more modern system.. Close Air Support doesn't mean getting down in the weeds anymore, and the CAS aircraft could be at 30,000 feet, never seen from the ground.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Close Air Support doesn't mean getting down in the weeds anymore,

Okaaay, cause you say so.
Jets have been filmed from the ground that are certainly close enough to shoot at.

One combatant describes the sound of jets scaring the "IS" fighters, jet is seen @1:04 into here…

a reply to: intrptr

Oh right, I forgot that the actual guys that fly the missions don't count.

It's been done with B-1s and B-52s as well as tactical aircraft. Yes they do still go in low, at times, but they don't HAVE to anymore.

A MANPADS is less effective against a fast mover than a helicopter. The engagement window for an SA-7 is extremely narrow, and even at an altitude where the noise is deafening a fast mover would be extremely hard to target.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The engagement window for an SA-7 is extremely narrow, and even at an altitude where the noise is deafening a fast mover would be extremely hard to target.

If thats what brought the jet down. Back to square one, your link on page one…

If the jet was shot down by a larger and more advanced commandeered radar guided surface-to-air missile, than operational tactics changes may be even more severe.

The video was proven fake in that link , too. Not believing what I read. All I know is a jet is down.

a reply to: intrptr

Just because you can hear the jets or see them on a zoomed in camera doesn't mean that they are within a deadly weapon employment zone for a MANPAD or other SAM system. The aircraft referenced/seen in the video you posted is a B-1, likely loitering above 8 or 10,000 feet (using the "JDAM CAS" tactics Zaph brought up) which puts it out of reach of most MANPAD systems.

originally posted by: WilliamWAS
Hello everyone,

My question for this thread would be: who is supplying these kind of weapons to ISIS? The weapon market is not a commodity market, you need political connections at governmental level to be able to pry and bid into it, money alone would not suffice. So what country among the ones who are openly or not-so-openly opposing ISIS are in fact feeding its leaders with long-range weapons?

How many countries would have interest in using ISIS as a WEAPON within the geo political scenario and against other countries? At what price?

These answers, to me, are far more preoccupying that a small fundamentalist gang's talking about creating an Islamic Empire.
Thanks for your attention

The US is probably supplying the weapons. It happened with Saddam so he could invade Kuwait, it's happened a number of times in Africa (Congo, Angola, SWA, Sierra Leone, etc.), so I don't see why it wouldn't be the same criminals again with the same bag of dirty tricks.

Cheers - Dave

Duplicate Post, system took a crapper....

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Off topic alert:

We gave weapons to Saddam to help him invade Kuwait? Can you provide any sources for this? I know we were buddy buddy with him back when he was going at it with Iran in the 80s, but I've never heard of us giving him weapons for the Kuwaiti invasion.

a reply to: intrptr

Yes, CAS means getting down in the weeds. Flying between mountain ranges. Flying nap of the earth.

It also means flying a 10k feet in a straight line.

The "close" in CAS means the targets are close to friendlies, not that the aircraft itself is close to anything. A number of aircraft are capable of providing CAS. Some fly high, some fly low. Depends on their munitions and capabilities.

I thought to myself, when the air war started and the beheading of the innocent aid workers, if I were a military pilot, would I eject? I dont know what I would feel, maybe training takes over, maybe the humans will to survive means unless you are depressed you cannot kill yourself.

But I said to myself no, I wouldnt bail, I would rather die on impact than be tortured and used as propagander.

I got over a fear of flying years ago (a fear of crashing and dieing) through meditation, I now accept that if something happens when flying, fear and anger, sadness or despair wont help, I am dead and I will close my eyes and visit that place in my head I can reach through meditation.

Will never know it works and dont want to.

Even though I am not religious, in case you are, I am praying for your safe return to Jordan brave pilot.

Lets hope the Special Forces of Jordan are blended into Syrian life.