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GOP senator blocks veterans' suicide prevention bill

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posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963

So, do you think being treated like a "ticking time bomb" is causing the suicides?

Let's face it! Nobody has really developed an effective treatment for PTSD yet. First we need to find a cure for war. Then find a cure for PTSD.


edit on 12/19/2014 by ladyinwaiting because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: DexterRiley


Coburn is saying that a dysfunctional Congress can provide oversight for another dysfunctional agency in the US government


I suppose. Unless he plans on setting up another faction of government, or contract another one to do it. He doesn't really make it clear how he proposes this would work, or what would make the 'overseers" functional or effective.

Rants are welcome, btw.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963




What a lot of people don't realize is that the Vets do have many ways to get mental healthcare help, a lot of them know what that will entail! Being treated poorly and losing their 2nd amendment rights. These things are first in foremost in their minds when they choose to self medicate with drugs and alcohol. Been there done that, and one of the first things they "the shrinks" do is try to put you in a drug and alcohol program for what? Being honest with them!



Change how you treat patients seeking help! Throwing money at a doctor who is nothing more than a pill factory and rehap pimp will just cause those who need the help to not seek it out!

Sorry, but I am a nut case speaking from experience, not emotional outrage over an issue that many think throwing more money at it will solve the problem....


Well, as far as the treatment problem itself is concerned, we're on the same page. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, ain't goin back!

Actually what you propose as far as alternative treatment methodologies is a good idea. The problem there is whether the "all-knowing" mental health professionals will accept someone telling them how to do their job. Most of them are locked into a dysfunctional mind-set that completely disregards the uniqueness of the individual. There is only right-think and wrong-think. Then they throw a load of meds at you so that your level of functionality is only slightly higher than the chair you are sitting in.

But, I think this bill was a step in the right direction. At the very least it increases the awareness in Congress of the suicide problem. And virtually anything that can be provided to these honorable former members of the US military is worth it.


dex



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: Bilk22

yep run three terms, then go work for wall-street or major lobbying firms.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Instead of chasing down the already known relationship between the soaring suicide rates among our vets and the psycho-tropic drugs forced on them, the 'usual' is done...throw money at it and pat ourselves on the back for our feel good 'act'.

Thus we avoid confronting big pharma as the real culprit.

This guys is not only 'honorable' he's an out and out hero, in my books.

SO QUIT POLITISIZING THIS ISSUE!



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker


SO QUIT POLITISIZING THIS ISSUE!


When a Senator blocks a bill, it's political.
With or without your approval.
edit on 12/19/2014 by ladyinwaiting because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

How about integrity? How about honesty? You avoid even the possibility of that being the case and label it 'GOP'.

One senator does not a party make...Although in this case I sorely wish it had been a whole party-either one- that stood up to big pharma and their political donations that have scuttled any real solution to this terrible situation.

It is a social issue not a political one...if, that is, one truly has the issue to heart.


edit on 19-12-2014 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:47 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

I used the Title as given in the article; as is done in this forum. Additionally it doesn't read "The GOP", it reads "a GOP Senator".

Is there something about it, which isn't true? Or otherwise, what's your point.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

OK, if it way the article 'Title', then sobeit.

You forwarded it.

My point was made in my earlier posts. If you don't see 'my point'. Then try rereading it, perhaps slower this time....



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I'd say lack of quality care is causing the suicides.

I got out of the Army with "severe PTSD".

I had to go to the VA and they assigned me a LCSW to see me weekly to "help" me. I told her every week that I do not drink and I haven't had alcohol in over five years (recovering alcoholic). After the seventh visit she recommended me to a substance abuse program for drugs and alcohol for my "problems". If she wasn't listening to something that basic, what the hell was she listening to? I left and didn't go back to see her again.

VA hospitals are filled with homeless vets and blood suckers (at least here in Detroit). The civilians that work here just want to check the box and move on to the next patient. There is no "care" so there fore the damaged soldier's problems are only compounded by going to the VA. PTSD often manifests as feelings of shame and/or guilt, imagine what adding abandonment on top of that would do to a damaged mind.

I was lucky in that my record was found by the head of the psych department. She called me up and now I see her instead of the LCSW. Not everyone gets lucky though.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: 200Plus

As a fellow vet this is a story I'm all too familiar with. I haven't been to the VA, ever, since I got out. Heard far too many tales from buddies and never cared to subject myself to that kind of crap on top of everything else we all deal with on the daily.

I'm truly, truly glad that you managed to slip through the cracks (and let's be honest, sadly enough your story is the rarity with the VA, ergo you slipped through somehow) and found quality help.

I won't even harsh on you for being Army

edit on 19-12-2014 by Shamrock6 because: Typos. Always the typos



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 09:30 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: Bilk22

Er, what am I missing? Is he blocking it or not? I believe he is. Apparently you and I differ on the definition of the word "honorable".

In no way is this action 'honorable.'

And your source is Colburn's own website? Okay, gotcha. : )
Yes it's Coburn's site and he's telling you exactly why he blocked it. Do you not believe him? He's not running again so he has nothing to hide. He didn't want to throw good money after bad. He's right. They need to fix the VA first before they just had them more millions/billions to waste and not giving the proper treatment and care to our vets. You don't find that honorable? I do and respect what he did. More of the idiots in Washington should be careful of how they spend our money and demand the agencies that receive it are more careful how they administer it. He's not against helping veterans. He's against helping the VA screw up more than they already have. This approach should be taken with all areas of government.

Ah but you're taking a political stance now aren't you? It's not a moral one that's for sure. Well guess Old Tom won't really care as HE'S NOT RUNNING AGAIN! But I bet you'll try to pin this on other Republicans, huh?


What a lot of people don't realize is that the Vets do have many ways to get mental healthcare help, a lot of them know what that will entail! Being treated poorly and losing their 2nd amendment rights. These things are first in foremost in their minds when they choose to self medicate with drugs and alcohol. Been there done that, and one of the first things they "the shrinks" do is try to put you in a drug and alcohol program for what? Being honest with them!

I would be willing to bet that many of their suicides are out of frustration of how the system treats them!

Coburn is right!

Change how you treat patients seeking help! Throwing money at a doctor who is nothing more than a pill factory and rehap pimp will just cause those who need the help to not seek it out!

Sorry, but I am a nut case speaking from experience, not emotional outrage over an issue that many think throwing more money at it will solve the problem....
I hear you and sympathize as well. Liberals in this country have been treating our returning military like criminals since Nam. Now they're in power and it's even more pronounced.

Coburn was just being realistic and also being responsible with the taxpayers money. That's what he was elected to do. That's what all the bozos in Washington are supposed to do. He knows the VA is broken and din't want to throw more money their way to mishandle while still leave our vets standing in lines. There's no way he wanted to hurt vets. And heck, he's a doctor. You'd think if he was like the rest in Washington, he would have thrown his medical comrades this money while walking out the front door. He didn't do that.



posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 06:44 AM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting The Senator did the right thing by stopping that bill. The VA already has a program in place to address this issue of Veteran suicide. The politicians just wanted to waste more of our money. Now do not go blasting me as someone that is against helping Veterans. I did retire from the military, so I kind of know what I am talking about when it comes to Veterans services.



posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting


WOW! Any chance he could be right? Takes some balls to stand up to pork wrapped in a bill like this.

Make things all better......toss a few zillion at it....every body gets a cut.....it call riding the gravy train while looking like a great humanitarian even if you are a bottom feeding sap sucker.



posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 07:06 AM
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originally posted by: DexterRiley
a reply to: seeker1963




What a lot of people don't realize is that the Vets do have many ways to get mental healthcare help, a lot of them know what that will entail! Being treated poorly and losing their 2nd amendment rights. These things are first in foremost in their minds when they choose to self medicate with drugs and alcohol. Been there done that, and one of the first things they "the shrinks" do is try to put you in a drug and alcohol program for what? Being honest with them!



Change how you treat patients seeking help! Throwing money at a doctor who is nothing more than a pill factory and rehap pimp will just cause those who need the help to not seek it out!

Sorry, but I am a nut case speaking from experience, not emotional outrage over an issue that many think throwing more money at it will solve the problem....


Well, as far as the treatment problem itself is concerned, we're on the same page. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, ain't goin back!

Actually what you propose as far as alternative treatment methodologies is a good idea. The problem there is whether the "all-knowing" mental health professionals will accept someone telling them how to do their job. Most of them are locked into a dysfunctional mind-set that completely disregards the uniqueness of the individual. There is only right-think and wrong-think. Then they throw a load of meds at you so that your level of functionality is only slightly higher than the chair you are sitting in.

But, I think this bill was a step in the right direction. At the very least it increases the awareness in Congress of the suicide problem. And virtually anything that can be provided to these honorable former members of the US military is worth it.


dex


Good post. Vets need to be encourage to develop vet support groups to do more of the helping of this problem. How in the world they can expect pill pushing mental health manual reading folks that really don't have much of a clue to deal with this problem is beyond me.



posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

If you will be so kind as to indulge me, let me tell you guys something about me. My father (now deceased) was a psychologist at the VA, so I grew up in a very pro-veteran environment, and to this day I bristle at any perceived slight or mistreatment towards them.

He had a group (as in group-therapy) of patients there, which was on-going and I know he loved that group. People lined up to sign up for it. He regularly took the changing members to our little cabin on the Gulf of Mexico for a week, so he could be with them, to show them they could manage their symptoms, and have a good time, without alcohol or drugs. They went deep-sea fishing, and learned how to clean fish and cook them too. It was hard on him, as there was always some flash-back or nightmare that he was tending to. He didn't get a lot of rest during those trips.

Now my father was raised in a family of democrats,(my grandparents) but after he was older, before I was born, he changed his political affiliation to Republican, so I was raised in that environment, but also quickly changed that when I left the nest and moved into a dorm at a university.

Towards the end of George W. Bush's last term, my father was in a car crash, (which four months later would lead to his death), but a week or so after it happened I walked into his hospital room and he was in his bed watching the news.

He heard me come in, and without looking at me said "you were right". I looked to see what he was watching, and it was a news show reporting that cut-backs were being made to the VA. My Dad commented that even as we were preparing to send in more troops, we were already planning to ignore them when they got back. He was furious, and said that was it. He would never support the "GOP", ever again. Of course, I was all "nanna nanna boo boo" on his arse.

(cont..... bear with me, I do have a point other than autobiography)


edit on 12/20/2014 by ladyinwaiting because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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Of course we couldn't help but laugh. All the arguments we'd had over politics, and now he's gone back to his roots. : )

So in terms of this bill. Yes, I bristle, and I despise what this Senator is doing, and I don't think he's being completely forthcoming about the reasons he's doing it. Seriously? Cutting funds to help prevent suicides in Veterans that are occurring 22 times a DAY, will be your legacy as you go out the door? Who would do that? And why? Who would want this nefarious and ill-thought out act as their legacy?

I'm not saying the man isn't 'honorable', as someone else called him. But I am saying that blocking this bill certainly isn't.

It is without question, the very wrong thing to do. His colleagues on both sides of the aisle were prepared to pass this bill. But he could stop it, and he did. It's wrong.

Our vets are coming back in a mess. Human beings are not cut out for war anymore. It's beyond what we are designed to go through anymore. What modern-man can tolerate. It's too much. And we can't effectively treat PTSD, and we don't know what the hell to do with it, so we try to control the symptoms with medications, and if they don't work, then the Veterans come up with their own ways to try to control symptoms. Yes, they have a problem, but we can't pretend like it's not OUR problem too. We created it by placing them in harm's way, and asking them to perform horrendous acts.

But to *stop trying* is not the answer. We have to keep on trying. Money is not even money anymore. It is a bunch of o's and 1's on a computer screen, and then we have Veterans coming home wanting and expecting help. Which one is real?

We are going to stumble upon a treatment some day. And it will indeed arrest PTSD symptoms. But it's going to take time, and yes, money, or those little figures on the monitor.

To say "NO", is to say you give up. To be defeatist. To stop trying. To write it off as not worth the time or trouble.

So, Senator, if you think you have done a good thing, then you need to think again.
edit on 12/20/2014 by ladyinwaiting because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 10:06 AM
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I volunteer with the homeless in a mental health institution town...out patients galore ( the occasional vet)
It isn't just vets...we see similar and related problems across the board

The cracker factory(ies) needs a constant supply of fresh cannon fodder to stay funded
so...there will always be a fresh supply of cannon fodder.

sandf OP
edit on Satam12b201412America/Chicago20 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


PS
in the recent mayoral election here the anti homeless (what A $$ zero) lost because " the people " know the difference, it seems to be the beaurocraps who don't
edit on Satam12b201412America/Chicago07 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 11:14 AM
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This retiring senator likely was chosen by the remaining GOP scoundrels just for the reason HE IS RETIRING so there won’t be any blow back

They ONLY, GOP, live and breath to help the rich folks.

They give lip service to poor people like these veterans and will only do what’s necessary to keep fooling people to think their human beings and the idiots go for it over and over



posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: Willtell

wow. Had no idea you felt this way. Star and star. Many of them are indeed scoundrels, including the ones from my state, which nobody ever runs against, so they are there to stay, or so it seems.




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