John Titor - Geiger Counter's From The Past

What, did you just not read my post at all?

You're running on some blatant assumption that because he's got this with him, it's all he's got with him.

He has to be a freaking retard, who doesn't understand his equipment as well as some kid in 2004.

As I've said, there are billions of reasons for him to have that.

Life doesn't work so that you touch an old piece of technology and all of your new technology just ... disappears! He likely just picked it up in 1975, for either of 2 reasons, or possibly of any one of countless others.

1) It's something difficult to get in his time, and in his time they have a real problem with x-ray radiation (3 nukes/pop on 100 cities). Maybe he was doing a bit of a favour by grabbing an old radiation detector before he returned, to help out his times.

2) It was just a nice picture-piece and he couldn't show us some superadvanced radiation detector from the future, but felt something like this added to the picture, because the chances someone would go find out exactly what a Victoreen Unit is are slim.


- Now, BOTH of those make perfect sense. BOTH of those allow him to be telling the truth. BOTH of those make every problem you brought up pointless.


Your attack is only successful if that is the only radiation detection device John Titor has with him, which we can't know, so your attack is not a viable one. Regardless of whether he's a fraud or a friend, regardless of the fact that knowing it's a Victoreen and it is limited is cool, and that you did some awesome research, this attack is not going to work, because it's based on a fallacious assumption. I'm sorry, but it is.

Oh, and for the record - the bit about his device emitting gamma rays and him not being safe, that's only if he somehow forgot to mention that his device emits gamma rays, if his Victoreen only measures gamma rays, and if he has only that radiation device with him.

The case that his device emits gamma radiation and that he has a Victoreen to measure it and he just forgot to mention all of that is a LOT less likely than that he just has the wrong radiation counter to monitor x-ray radiation. Which is still a very dubious case.

He's stated, his device only emits x-rays, they're used in an 'electron-injector' to modify the size of the singularities, and the gravity sinusoid.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Viendin]

Originally posted by Viendin
What, did you just not read my post at all?

Not much of it, not after the first couple of sentences..


If you will notice with my first post as well as most of my following posts, and short of some assumptions that I felt comfortable drawing, my sole purpose was to identify the so-called geiger counter in the photo's and ultimatly the practicality of that model being the right one for suggested purposes.

Any 'attacks' by me to John Titor as you suggest, are only your observation,... I'm sure he is really a nice guy in real life.

Instead I analyze with what information I have before me.

Viendin: Oh, and for the record - the bit about his device emitting gamma rays and him not being safe, that's only if he somehow forgot to mention that his device emits gamma rays,...He's stated, his device only emits x-rays, they're used in an 'electron-injector' to modify the size of the singularities, and the gravity sinusoid.

Ummm... he does mention that...

Timetravel_0: I'm not sure what radiation you mean. If you mean from the unit, you can see it vents X-rays and Gamma radiation out of the rear. As long as you stay away from that, you should be okay. I keep a radiation detector with me to check my environment and make sure the unit isn't "leaking".

Gee, maybe that's why the Victoreen survey meter is shown in two seperate photo's, and he had not said "radiation detector's", in the plural.

- Now, BOTH of those make perfect sense. BOTH of those allow him to be telling the truth. BOTH of those make every problem you brought up pointless.

Well sounds like we both are in the same boat.






[edit on 14-12-2004 by smirkley]

You've got me on the gamma radiation, I thought he'd only mentioned x-ray radiation.

Now, you're saying that your whole purpose, in this entire thread is creating the hypothetical situation that, were John Titor a real time traveller, and his machine worked exactly as he said it did, that if he only had this single unit for radiation detection, then he'd be boned?

I can live with that.

See, I thought, as, is generally the case, we were talking about reality.

I'm fine with you making whatever assumptions you want for hypothetical purposes - you know, hypothetically, if you couldn't breathe, I'm quite certain you'd fail to take oxygen in, and resultingly die. I should make a thread about that!

-- Forgive the patronisation, I just think your case is a little weak. It's either a failed attack on a real story, or a pointless hypothetical. At most it was some fun background research.

Originally posted by Viendin
....it was some fun background research.

And that it was.


but with the information available and reviewing my post's here,... I see it a strong case instead of weak one instead,.. a failed 'attack' would demonstrate to me that the comparison's I made were in fact false and unsubstantial, yet this is not the case.

Instead the only 'counter' to the fact's and hypothisis I present, are based on even 'less' information available, and even 'more' on hypothetical situation's that do not have substantiating evidence, as in artifacts in the photo's, nor in comments of the time traveler..


But an interesting investigation nonetheless.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by smirkley]

If i remember correctly, all of titors stuff was from 70�s because he was going there. Car, money, clothes etc. So why would he carry a new geiger counter if everything else was so perfectly from 70�s? Of course he would take old geiger counter.
-ap

Titor's people could have brought back that 1970's design to their time and modified or added the capability to measure X-rays to it within the original housing - we wouldn't be able to see these modifications in a picture of the outside of the device.

Also, he claims they live in a no-nonsense, rugged world. Early versions of devices are often like that and so might appeal to them more than the more sophisticated later versions. Also, it might be easier to field repair the less sophisticated devices than the later ones that rely on integrated circuit electronics. That would probably appeal to them as well.

One final comment. If they have something like the Star Trek Prime Directive, it would be likely that their time travellers would be equipped with devices that at least resembled items from the time period they were visiting - in case there was an accident and/or they were discovered or caught.

[edit on 12/14/2004 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by sturod84
think about the entire american industrial infrastructure being oblitorated in WW3 and then consider the fact they were far more worried about the demise of the human race to even consider rectifying the happless manufacturing plants of these products, that is perhaps the only kind of giger counter they could find?

If we couldnt produce new advanced Gieger counters in a post WW3 America how the heck did they create a timemachine? He said the timemachine was created after the war.

After major cites were nuked and America went though a civil war we wouldnt develop much of anything advanced let alone a portable timemachine.

Originally posted by Viendin


1) It's something difficult to get in his time, and in his time they have a real problem with x-ray radiation (3 nukes/pop on 100 cities). Maybe he was doing a bit of a favour by grabbing an old radiation detector before he returned, to help out his times.

2) It was just a nice picture-piece and he couldn't show us some superadvanced radiation detector from the future, but felt something like this added to the picture, because the chances someone would go find out exactly what a Victoreen Unit is are slim.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Viendin]

1. If they can invent a time machine that fits on a car seat I hope they could make something simple as a Gieger counter. That would be like making a fussion reactor and at the same time not being able to build a steam engine.

2. He didnt want to show us a super advanced radiation detector but pictures of a timemachine thats OK:

1. He said that there are at present 6, countem, 6 time machines.

There's no simple tradeoffs, like, 1 time machine means they can make 50,000 geiger counters - they could have 60,000 geiger counters out there at that time, and still they'd be hard to come by, because they simply weren't being mass-produced.

This isn't like fusion without a steam engine, this is like a speedboat without a 1000-ship Galleon armada.

2) We don't know what a 'time machine' would be supposed to look like. If we see his Time Machine, or if he shows us a Time Machine, or even a crude box and says 'It's a Time Machine', then we can't prove him right or wrong, it doesn't matter much.

But if he shows us what is obviously a streamlined and slightly more advanced version of a present geiger counter, we might be able to tell. It might suddenly be obvious to us that there's something big afoot here. A wooden box with some tape doesn't mean much to us, but an obviously futuristic geiger counter would, so he'd be violating laws by showing us those counters, but not the TM's.


-- And anyrate, you've managed to hurt the reputation of (not finish) 2/11, the 11 that I got in about 4 minutes typing time w/ pee break. Good job, but the others await.

Either John was using this as a prop,... regardless of how he thought he might fit in using period props, I dont think a person with a geiger counter walking around trying to find a type of computer in 1975, would appear as 'blending' in. (quite the contrary)

Or,..

John was using this as a radiation monitor as he stated.
The wrong type radiation monitor for the job, one that is not efficient in measuring harmful exposures for the purpose intended.

(I imagine it could be retrofitted with new guts, but it seems a far stretch to do all that for the purpose of having a period piece.)




Basically,...

Wrong monitor for the job. Period. It doesn't accurately measure exposures that would likely make him sick. It doesnt warn of early overexposure. It doesnt help him 'blend in' 1975. It doesnt even support his story, suggesting it is used to monitor x-ray and gamma emissions of the machine.


It just doesnt fit. It doesnt hold water. It is a 'flaw' in the story or a major time traveler 'faux-pax'.




edit-sp


[edit on 15-12-2004 by smirkley]

Pretty funny.

Good Job, Smirkley

I have just one question. I supose it is somewhere on Titor's site, but maybe someone can answer it for me.

How does one "vent" EM radiation? It sounds to me, by the use of the term "vent" that he is implying that excess radiation is "vented off" in a specific direction. Does this sound as stupid to anyone else as it does to me?

Originally posted by Viendin
1. He said that there are at present 6, countem, 6 time machines.

There's no simple tradeoffs, like, 1 time machine means they can make 50,000 geiger counters - they could have 60,000 geiger counters out there at that time, and still they'd be hard to come by, because they simply weren't being mass-produced.

But you wouldnt need 60,000 gieger counters just 6 for the time machines that are known to give off radiation. Didnt he say the timemachine he had was a more advanced version then others that were created a model with less timeline variation or something? So they can improve on a time machine design yet not make a better gieger counter then one made in the 1960s.

But I guess when Titor was ripping of Alas, Babylon he didnt read about any advanced gieger counters, and he already spent so much time making a box look like a timemachine.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
How does one "vent" EM radiation? It sounds to me, by the use of the term "vent" that he is implying that excess radiation is "vented off" in a specific direction. Does this sound as stupid to anyone else as it does to me?

Yes I thought the same.

Does anyone out here know what it would take to make a toolbox that weighs approximately 500 pounds, componentry and 'singular-generated-weight' included, to be able to effectively contain, channel, and ultimately 'vent' high dose rates of gamma radiation and x-radiation, using current technology?

Seem's it would be alot more bulky of a toolbox to be able to do this safely.

[edit on 15-12-2004 by smirkley]

Well it seems this toolbox would have a bit of weight and size to it to effectively contain gamma radiation, although I could not find any direct reference to gamma being able to be 'vented' but instead either passing thru material or being absorbed by material, but not deflecting off material (as in venting gamma). I suppose if the back of the time machine were to be where the actual gamma emitter was focused at, that that would be the general area the gamma's that emitted that direction, would travel.


Shields that reduce gamma ray intensity by 50% include 1 cm (0.4 inches) of lead, 6 cm (2.4 inches) of concrete or 9 cm (3.6 inches) of packed dirt.
en.wikipedia.org...


Now if the toolbox was made to reduce gamma exposure of the timetraveler by only 50%,... then the material to make the enclosure would weigh approximately 24 pounds per square foot.
Specifying Lead Sheet
This toolbox would need to weigh more than 300 pounds to reduce gamma irradiation by 50%, based on the photo for size scale of the toolbox. And that does not include any componentry, nor singularity created weight.

Radiation Shielding


But I am still real curious how gamma could be 'vented'.

[edit on 15-12-2004 by smirkley]

Originally posted by Viendin
1. He said that there are at present 6, countem, 6 time machines.

Common man, read the story,...

he said 7 other's, plus his, makes 8 that are used by time traveler's from 2036.