Firms Have $3,000 Incentive For Hiring Illegals Under Obama Amnesty

a reply to: Daedalus

Does that mean you don't want to live with me?

a reply to: links234

No really, I'm so glad to hear that you know exactly how illegal aliens live and work. I'm sure you're aware of all the nuances of their lifestyle so that you have all the answers for how to deal with them and their situations.

You'd be amazed at how much they come right out and tell you, once they get to know you. I was actually shocked at the things they got away with. They even encouraged me to do the same. No way! I wasn't brought up that way to screw the system.

originally posted by: links234
a reply to: Daedalus

Does that mean you don't want to live with me?

Hahahaha!

a reply to: links234



What the Christ?

originally posted by: Daedalus
if they're getting benefits, then yes, i suppose they would end up needing to answer a bunch of questions about income....but if they're not, then they don't.

And if they're not getting any benefits they're not leeching off of anyone. Instead they're here working hard and earning money. What is the problem with that? Is the problem that they're willing to work for less money than a US citizen? Under capitalism the most efficient person gets the job and they're being more efficient for the employer. The US citizen could work 10 people to an apartment and save up money as well, but they don't. So the conclusion is either that capitalism is flawed (this is the side I'm on) or that US citizens need to become more competitive. The employer doesn't really care, that's why they outsourced all those manufacturing jobs to non citizens where none of the wages go back into our economy.

you get 10 or so of them together, they pool their resources, and rent a house..if they're all working under the table, for cash, they've got the resources to afford the rent, and food, and transportation, with enough left over to send back to mexico. even if they're only able to send 25 bucks a month, back, that still translates to (as of today, with slight rounding, for round numbers) roughly 350 pesos...assuming the exchange rate holds at roughly the same, over the course of 10 years, that's roughly 42,000 pesos...go 20 years, and that's 84,000 pesos....if they're able to send 50 dollars a month home, then you're talking 84,000 at 10 years, and 168,000 at 20 years...and so on, and so forth, depending on how much they can send home...

And if they're a legal citizen they get to send home $150/month rather than $50/month for example. Simultaneously because their wage now has to be increased to atleast minimum wage they suddenly cost the same as someone who was already here, which means the person without amnesty can atleast compete for the same job. Both sides win.

the ONLY benefit it provides them is protection from deportation, while they continue padding their retirement fund...

And it protects the honest American citizen who lives here and doesn't need amnesty in the first place too. It doesn't protect them as well as finding and deporting all of the illegals but that's not a workable solution.

they do? explain to me exactly how someone working under the table, for cash, with no documented record of employment, and no "paycheck" is paying ANY deductions..

The employer still has to explain the wages of their employees, the IRS doesn't really care of an individual works under the table but they do care that said employer pays the taxes on those cash wages. Actually getting caught doing that though is all a matter of luck of the draw with audits.

no, what they're not paying, is ANYTHING....and holy crap, you really ARE bad at math...3 out of 9 is not 50%

Sorry, I read the 50% increase quote, which is from 6 to 9. 3 is 33% of 9. However the point stands, at lower income levels you aren't paying 33% in taxes either, especially if you're not spending money in the local economy and being hit with things like gas and fuel taxes. However, you are paying some taxes.

i never proposed to give them the power to deport anyone they want, on nothing more than the accusation of being illegal...where in the hell do you GET this crap?

From your words, you said no trials for illegals because illegal invaders don't get trials. If there is no trial then US citizens have no rights to prove their legal status. ICE can draw whatever conclusions they want from whatever sources they choose to use or not use. Without a court date ICE can say you're an illegal and there's nothing you can do about it, regardless of what documentation you have. That opens the door to them deporting anyone they want, for anything they want and that is a very bad thing to enable.

a reply to: Aazadan

Instead they're here working hard and earning money. What is the problem with that?

The problem with that is ...THEY are working while citizens are un-employed and have families to feed.

The US citizen could work 10 people to an apartment and save up money as well, but they don't.

Who the hell wants to live like that? The illegals that I knew that did that were fighting all the time and absolutely miserable and couldn't wait to have their own place!

US citizens need to become more competitive.

We have people working two and three jobs just to survive. We have people that are getting paid less, getting hours taken away and you want them to be more competitive? Human beings should not be slaves. We shouldn't have to live like third world Countries just because people decide to waltz over the damned border. WE shouldn't have to speak a foreign language to get a job that has nothing to do with international business or interpreting. There are many jobs now that require a citizen to speak Spanish now. No American citizen should be forced to changed because of law breakers.

originally posted by: Aazadan
And if they're not getting any benefits they're not leeching off of anyone. Instead they're here working hard and earning money. What is the problem with that? Is the problem that they're willing to work for less money than a US citizen? Under capitalism the most efficient person gets the job and they're being more efficient for the employer.

the problem is that they're doing jobs that citizens could be doing. that's the heart of it....foreign invaders, taking jobs away from citizens. this is OUR country, WE should come first.

The US citizen could work 10 people to an apartment and save up money as well, but they don't. So the conclusion is either that capitalism is flawed (this is the side I'm on) or that US citizens need to become more competitive. The employer doesn't really care, that's why they outsourced all those manufacturing jobs to non citizens where none of the wages go back into our economy.

i believe that you're reading the individual words, but that you're not understanding/comprehending them as sentences/thoughts. it seems to be in one ear, and out the other with you...

the REASON they pack so many of themselves into a place, is to lower overhead...they pool resources so that everyone can get what they need to live, while sending the maximum back to their country of origin(most often, mexico). a bunch of us living like that wouldn't do a damned thing, because we're not working to send money to a country where the exchange rate allows us to accumulate large amounts of money in a relatively short period of time.

if we set aside 50 bucks, that's 50 bucks.....for them, it turns into roughly 700 pesos.....i don't know how many more ways i can explain this to you..

And if they're a legal citizen they get to send home $150/month rather than $50/month for example. Simultaneously because their wage now has to be increased to atleast minimum wage they suddenly cost the same as someone who was already here, which means the person without amnesty can atleast compete for the same job. Both sides win.

-sigh- how can i be expected to have a conversation with you, when you just ignore everything i say?

where in the hell are you getting the "now they can send 150 instead of 50" thing? and you do realize that every dollar they send home, is a dollar less in our economy, right? you do understand that this is a bad thing, right?

amnesty ONLY means they're shielded from deportation. making them actual legal citizens would require that they be paid the same as everyone else, but that's assuming they actually WANT to have anything to do with our system, which most of them don't...they're here to earn money, send it back home, and then leave when they have enough back there. amnesty will make them more or less documented visitors, or somesuch..

in any event, if they're still working under the table, they're not getting paid minimum, not paying for benefits, or income tax, or any of the other mandatory deductions. they're still more attractive to scumbag cheap-skates, and the american people still lose...

And it protects the honest American citizen who lives here and doesn't need amnesty in the first place too.

HOW!? Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket, HOW does it protect anyone but them from ANYTHING?

The employer still has to explain the wages of their employees, the IRS doesn't really care of an individual works under the table but they do care that said employer pays the taxes on those cash wages. Actually getting caught doing that though is all a matter of luck of the draw with audits.

and i'll say it again.....all they need do, is cook the books, so the money disappears...

and yes, the IRS sure as s**t cares if people work under the table...especially if you're a citizen, and you make over 10k a year, and you're not declaring it...

Sorry, I read the 50% increase quote, which is from 6 to 9. 3 is 33% of 9. However the point stands, at lower income levels you aren't paying 33% in taxes either, especially if you're not spending money in the local economy and being hit with things like gas and fuel taxes. However, you are paying some taxes.

ok, cool, i figured you either REALLY sucked at math, or you "mis-spoke", and that you'd eventually catch it...

anyway, as long as you're making enough to declare, you're gonna pay taxes....at lower income levels, you'll most likely get it all back, after filing, but in the meantime, you're still paying.....and some things would be done locally, like food, gas, clothing, etc...but sales tax is not what we're talking about....

From your words, you said no trials for illegals because illegal invaders don't get trials. If there is no trial then US citizens have no rights to prove their legal status. ICE can draw whatever conclusions they want from whatever sources they choose to use or not use. Without a court date ICE can say you're an illegal and there's nothing you can do about it, regardless of what documentation you have. That opens the door to them deporting anyone they want, for anything they want and that is a very bad thing to enable.

look, i never said ICE should have the power to deport anyone they want, at any time....that's your misinterpretation of what i said, based on your lack of understanding of how the system works...

NO law enforcement agent can just arrest or detain someone, unless they have reason to suspect they've committed a crime....that usually means you're acting suspicious, or they witness you commit a crime....otherwise, they need a warrant. to get a warrant, you need to provide probable cause to a judge, so they'll sign off on it. this means whatever agency wants to make the arrest would need to investigate first.

it's not just "round up brown people, and sort it out later"

a reply to: Daedalus

HOW!? Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket, HOW does it protect anyone but them from ANYTHING?

Hahahahaha! OMG, that cracked me up!
Illegals get catered to, rewarded, protected...while the citizens and those coming through the proper channels get screwed. I miss the good old days when things at least made sense. Laws were laws and were enforced. If we broke a law, we paid the consequences. None of this double standard of laws only applying to citizens and not illegal immigrants who get to pick and choose.