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Russia demands guarantees over Ukraine from NATO

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posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: paraphi



Yet the recent parliamentary elections returned parties who want to lean Westwards.

Yes if you just exclude all the people in the east of the Ukraine and all the people in the Crimea who voted themselves out of the Ukraine then you could be right if you also exclude voting fraud from a government that's crying wolf all day long over the Russia invasion.

This is what you buy if you spend $5bn to hire Nazi's in a poor country and then give them guns to fight alongside the Ukraine army but I don't think its something to do with democracy do you




posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Source


Did you actually read them, because if you had you would see what your source is saying about the cables is not what the cables are saying.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter




Love to see how the Yanks would react to Russian 'advisors' taking over Mexico and Canada


Ah have we forgot about Cuba?

And let's see how you react to Russian advisers taking over Scotland.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: rockpaperhammock


Russia survives, and Europe, on paper, looks like it has some problems.

Russia has very little debt and Europe will have more than a few problems if Russia is forced to turn the gas off this winter.

I hope they do and then people in Europe will turn on the politicians who are all taking bribes or being blackmailed by the USA and make them kick the USA out of Europe and take there hundreds of military bases with them.

Russia exports more than just oil and has some good ties with China who now has a GDP that is overtaken the USA so I think they will live.

How are you enjoying your police state and should we now add Russians and China communist to the list of people we need protecting from ?



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: VirusGuard




Yes if you just exclude all the people in the east of the Ukraine and all the people in the Crimea who voted themselves out of the Ukraine then you could be right if you also exclude voting fraud from a government that's crying wolf all day long over the Russia invasion.


Crying wolf you say...let's not forget a little area called Crimea, which was invaded by Russia and annexed from Ukraine.



This is what you buy if you spend $5bn to hire Nazi's in a poor country and then give them guns to fight alongside the Ukraine army but I don't think its something to do with democracy do you


So your saying this was planned in advance for at least a decade, because as we have had this discussion before that is the length of time that the 5 billion was sent to Ukraine.

As for them being Nazi's...Really hasn't that been disproven already?

And the reason you have them fighting is why...because Putin invaded Crimea and annexed it, then decided to take his show on the road to the east.



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard
Yes if you just exclude all the people in the east of the Ukraine and all the people in the Crimea who voted themselves out of the Ukraine then you could be right if you also exclude voting fraud from a government that's crying wolf all day long over the Russia invasion.


Four points.

Firstly, Ukraine is a single nations and if one part don't like it then tough. That is how democracy works.

Secondly, threats of violence has prevented due democratic process in some parts of the eastern Ukraine. However, the areas effected are only a small portion of the total electorate. It is sad that some people feel motivated and supported that they resort to violence.

Thirdly, Crimea could not vote in the presidential or parliamentary elections as Russia had annexed the place!

Fourthly, on voting fraud, read the report www.osce.org... I am sure you'll come up with some claim of widespread fraud, but that's life. At least I have a reliable source!

Regards



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 04:27 PM
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a reply to: VirusGuard

Russia does have quite a bit of iron as well...its all about who wants it...if places like china, india etc turn and start getting iron from russia it would be easy id imagine to increase production....

and not sure what you mean about how am i enjoying my police state lol....i abandoned the usa long ago....ive lived in 5 different countries in my life although was born in america...



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 10:43 PM
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Which part of Russia's "near abroad" geopolitical interests does the West not understand ?

This understanding needs to made to be incurred, embedded and established in the Western minds. Once it is, then there will be lots of peace in the region and probably the world.




posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 02:25 AM
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a reply to: victor7




Which part of Russia's "near abroad" geopolitical interests does the West not understand ?


You see Russia has not understood, or Putin doesn't seem to understand...Ukraine is not part of Russia,he is not the president and needs to stay out of trying to dictate who Ukraine can deal with.

In fact it's like the US telling Mexico, or Canada who they can do trade with.



This understanding needs to made to be incurred, embedded and established in the Western minds.


And yet the understanding that Putin needs is the fact that Ukraine is not part of the Russian federation anymore he needs to get over it and help his Russian people not just his bank account.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 04:16 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Yeah and US is so much better taking over governments in a hidden sly way, financing revolutions, installing puppets

and if that doesn't work and country is weak enough, bomb them to smithereens with depleted uranium

USA USA USA



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 08:18 AM
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Ukraine better off with the EU ?

Why Ukraine should not expect financial help from the EU



Parliamentary elections in Ukraine on 26th October indicated that the country is on a Western path. But the euphoria many felt in Kiev after the end of Euromaidan protests may be replaced by hard realisation that not much has changed in Ukraine. The economy is in a dire place and is unlikely to improve any time soon.




To add salt to injury, European Commission’s quarterly report on the euro area economy predicted at the beginning of the year that unless there are serious economic reforms, living standards in the eurozone, relative to the US, will be lower in 2023 than they were in the mid-1960s.


Source



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h




In fact it's like the US telling Mexico, or Canada who they can do trade with.


Forget about Canada and Mexico, the US tells companies of every nation that they will not trade with them if these companies trade with Cuba.

Forget about trade, US does not like when individual passports have Cuban visit stamp on them.

US does not own this world. That is where the whole problem is.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: WineWithIce5




Yeah and US is so much better taking over governments in a hidden sly way, financing revolutions, installing puppets

and if that doesn't work and country is weak enough, bomb them to smithereens with depleted uranium


And that somehow gives Russia the right to do what they have been doing as of late?



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: victor7




Forget about Canada and Mexico,


Why, because it makes sense?

The US doesn't have the right to dictate who either of the countries bordering it can deal with or who they want to be part of, but in some twisted logic it is okay for Russia to try and dictate who Ukraine deals with...so no you can't forget about Mexico, and Canada.




the US tells companies of every nation that they will not trade with them if these companies trade with Cuba.


And when did Cuba go from being an island to being on the border of the US?

So your argument doesn't really work here now does it, because we are talking about the countries that are actual borders to the US, such as Ukraine bordering Russia and whether or not one has the right to dictate who their neighbors deal with...or did I miss something?



Forget about trade, US does not like when individual passports have Cuban visit stamp on them.


Really, because it seems the US gov't feels differently...


The rise in U.S. visitors partly reflects a loosening of travel restrictions by President Barack Obama's administration and allow "people-to-people" contact aimed at speeding political change on the communist-ruled island 90 miles from Florida.

As well as allowing Cuban Americans to travel to Cuba freely, Obama authorized licenses for "purposeful" travel to more than 250 Cuba travel agents and allowed more airports to provide charter service between the two countries.


www.reuters.com...

And then we also have this...


Just over 98,000 U.S. citizens visited Cuba in 2012, up from 73,500 in 2011 and twice the number compared with five years ago, according to an online report by the National Statistics Office (www.one.cu).


www.reuters.com...



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: victor7




US does not own this world. That is where the whole problem is.


And who said they did?

No the problem is Russia invaded Ukraine, annexed Crimea then decided to take his fun east while trying to deny what everyone already knows.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: rigel4

Putin's approval rating in Russia is astronomical. Whether that's a byproduct of his propaganda or the people genuinely love him is up for debate, but simply removing Putin from power won't fix what he's caused. The issue runs deeper, he's a charismatic, decisive leader that has united a nation. I don't agree one bit with his actions in Ukraine but at this point, if Putin were to mysteriously die, or be removed from power, he would become more than he already is, he would become a symbol for the Russian people, almost a saint.



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 01:58 PM
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That too seems a trifle overblown....Propaganda is easy when you own the media (both sides)
The truth is somewhat more restrained than that...
Putin may be popular with the old guard (tentatively though) as the first time he considers negotiations in good faith they will dump him for another hard liner...IMHO of course....
The commoners will be manipulated through dreams of former glory.....till the country is broke.
The NWO is sucking the value out of many economies like the marrow from a bone...
edit on 20-11-2014 by stirling because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 03:41 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Putin's approval rating in Russia is astronomical. Whether that's a byproduct of his propaganda or the people genuinely love him is up for debate,


When you control the media like Putin, you can control the both the ratings and the message. Putin is creating his own myth and his own cult of the person. Astronomical ratings and media control go hand in hand.

Regards



posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: rigel4

Putin's approval rating in Russia is astronomical. Whether that's a byproduct of his propaganda or the people genuinely love him is up for debate, but simply removing Putin from power won't fix what he's caused. The issue runs deeper, he's a charismatic, decisive leader that has united a nation. I don't agree one bit with his actions in Ukraine but at this point, if Putin were to mysteriously die, or be removed from power, he would become more than he already is, he would become a symbol for the Russian people, almost a saint.


Correct, removing Putin will not change the tone of Russia in that or that issues. Most likely another Siloviki i.e. person from ex-KGB or military or similar background will dress into civilian clothes and take to helm in the Kremlin.

Silovikis know what real plans of the West are when it comes to Russia. Russia has had two terrible experiences with 2 recent weak leaders: Gorbachov and then Yeltsin. One lost the whole country and other was drunk when whatever leftover was being looted and people being beggared.

No more weak and boot licking leaders please.




posted on Nov, 20 2014 @ 04:23 PM
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a reply to: WineWithIce5

That is what i got from it too.Others may perceive it differently.Of course,whatever gets you through the night..



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