Woman suing owner of dog that her dogs killed

a reply to: queenofswords

They were bred to bite and hold bulls and other large animals. so you're right, they do latch on (as do some other breeds). So, if someone has a dog that has been raised to fight (as so many are) and they are not rehabbed, they might bite someone. They were taught to do that. My point is, they aren't naturally like that. They are not aggressive dogs.

People could raise GSDs, Rotties, or any other of a long list of breeds to fight and you'd get the same results. It just happens that the pit bull is the breed of choice for fighting dogs.

I've had pitbulls before and the only time one of them got aggressive, it was as she got older.
To be honest with you guys, I've been bit more by chihuahas than pitbulls. And that's saying something.

Put the blame where the blame is due and that is in the owner. It's just like a child. Are you going to blame a small child for not doing what they are supposed to, or are you going to blame the parent? I sincerely hope you would blame the parent.

This case is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as some of the people in this thread. I hope it gets tossed out.


EDIT: Now that I think about it. I've never been bitten by a Pitbull. I've been bitten by chihuahas and a German Shepard when I was young. Dog almost ripped my face off. But you know what? I'd still adopt a GS and give one the best life I could. I know that the dog was just frightened, as my aunt and uncle were not treated their horde of animals correctly.

Yes it is recent human fault Pit Bulls are now aggressive.

Created in the UK

A dog (Olde English Bulldog) that looked much like today's pit bull was originally used in the 1800's in the British Isles to 'bait' bulls. These matches were held for the entertainment of the struggling classes; a source of relief from the tedium of hardship. In 1835 bull baiting was deemed inhumane and became illegal, and dog fighting became a popular replacement. Soon, a new bulldog was created by crossing the Olde English Bulldog with terriers to create smaller, more agile dogs. The best fighters were celebrated and held up as heroes for their courage and fortitude during battle. At the same time, bite inhibition towards humans was encouraged through selective breeding so gamblers could handle their dogs during staged fights. Partially because of these early breeding efforts which frowned on "man biters," pit bulls gained a reputation for their trustworthy nature with humans.
Source

Some pit bulls were selected and bred for their fighting ability. That means that they may be more likely than other breeds to fight with dogs. It doesn’t mean that they can’t be around other dogs or that they’re unpredictably aggressive. Other pit bulls were specifically bred for work and companionship. These dogs have long been popular family pets, noted for their gentleness, affection and loyalty. And even those pit bulls bred to fight other animals were not prone to aggressiveness toward people. Dogs used for fighting needed to be routinely handled by people; therefore aggression toward people was not tolerated. Any dog that behaved aggressively toward a person was culled, or killed, to avoid passing on such an undesirable trait. Research on pet dogs confirms that dog aggressive dogs are no more likely to direct aggression toward people than dogs that aren’t aggressive to other dogs.

ASPCA

Drug dealers and ignorant idiots took a breed that was specifically bred to never bite a human and started breeding the odd bad tempered dog (instead of culling them as they did in the beginning) to more odd balls that are inherently aggressive so they can guard the all important drugs etc., and boom you have a powerful dog bred to "bait" bulls now human aggressive perpetrated by humans, not the breed.

There are still plenty of Pits out there that are much sweeter than the average little dog, just stay away from backyard breeders who have their dogs on 20 pound chains in the yard.

As for the biting spaniel mentioned earlier google "spaniel rage'


Lil

ETA Parts in bold mine

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a problem with dogs is once they have been blooded they change and cannot really be trusted..

What does it mean when a dog is "blooded"? I've never heard that phrase before and can't find anything about it...

once they taste fresh blood they they will want it again.......growing up in the country that what the farmers say....but doing a search i havent found any proof of it...so it could just be a wives tale

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

The only instance where something like that might be true is eggs. Once a dog gets a taste for sucking eggs they want more A lot of farmers etc will shoot egg suckers. I attribute it to humans still though "Oh it's fine, I don't have to contain my dog they like to go roam around and they aren't hurting anything" /sigh

Lil

a reply to: Lilroanie

thx for that...so there is a little smidgen of truth in there......

a reply to: chuck258

Hot topic, for sure.

I used to defend all pitties and thought that breed exclusion legislation was a bit ridiculous. (In some ways I still do.) However in the last 4-5 years in my neighborhood I have been witness to 5 separate attacks promulgated by pitbulls. 2 of the attacks were fatal for the dogs that were attacked (which were on leash, according to the laws) 2 of the other dogs were treated with serious injuries, and only one was relatively unscathed.

During this period, my neighbor's dog (a southern virginia bred oversized pit bull: 100-120lbs) pulled his owner down in an attempt to get at my dogs. I released my dogs leashes and grabbed him by the collar and waited for his owner...while my dogs stood 10 feet away watching me as if to say "Dad's got this...we hope."

The point being: The dogs, if taken individually and owned responsibly and raised correctly, are wonderful pets. However, as a group, the damage that they can cause to other dogs requires them to be treated much differently- with greater focus on prevention, responsibility, and culpability on behalf of the owners. (It's not the dog's fault that they are what they are, but when dogs have been bred for fighting instinct, size and pain tolerance...the end result CAN be devastating.)

Back to the OP: I think that lady is grasping at straws and if the owner of the Beagle hires a decent attorney, he can countersue and win quite easily.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
once they taste fresh blood they they will want it again.......growing up in the country that what the farmers say....but doing a search i havent found any proof of it...so it could just be a wives tale

I see. Thanks for your response. I grew up on a farm, too. Never heard that one... Maybe it was regional. I do remember our dad telling my brothers to keep the hound dogs away from the chicken coop! Wow, this conversation just triggered that memory. LOL!

a reply to: chuck258

She is lucky her neighbor did not shoot her dogs as I would of done.

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
I've had pitbulls before and the only time one of them got aggressive, it was as she got older.
To be honest with you guys, I've been bit more by chihuahas than pitbulls. And that's saying something.

Put the blame where the blame is due and that is in the owner. It's just like a child. Are you going to blame a small child for not doing what they are supposed to, or are you going to blame the parent? I sincerely hope you would blame the parent.

This case is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as some of the people in this thread. I hope it gets tossed out.


EDIT: Now that I think about it. I've never been bitten by a Pitbull. I've been bitten by chihuahas and a German Shepard when I was young. Dog almost ripped my face off. But you know what? I'd still adopt a GS and give one the best life I could. I know that the dog was just frightened, as my aunt and uncle were not treated their horde of animals correctly.

This is what is so ridiculous. It is amazing that this type of logic even passes as reasonable. Chihuahuas may bite just as often and maybe even more. But, a chihuahua is NOT going to latch, hold, and shake till its victim is dead. You can pull a chihuahua off and kick his little ass from here to kingdom come if he attacks your child. You cannot do this to a pit bull....period.

a reply to: queenofswords

You can't easily pull off any large dog determined to go after your child. My point is there's nothing special about a pit bull when compared to a GSD, Rottie or any of those other breeds mentioned.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Grovit
i would guess he is trying to say once they have tasted blood they will not be the same...they will want more blood.

Thank you, Grovit. Imagine... a carnivore liking the taste of blood! LOL! Well, that's hilarious! My dogs hunt and eat rabbits and birds. They have been on raw diets, complete with plenty of blood many times. They have never been aggressive or tried to bite anyone. But they do love blood...

The "Bloodthirsty" Myth

People fail to understand that dogs are carnivorous predators. They are supposed to "have a taste for meat."
...
The dog is, by nature, a predator, and will chase other animals because it is hard-wired to do so, not because it is bloodthirsty or has a taste for meat in the human definition of the words.
...
Humans were the ones that deemed the killing behavior as inappropriate and unwanted. Humans tend to expect dogs to exhibit only the delightful behaviors that benefit us, and to act as little humans in fur coats. But when the dog acts in accordance to its canine behavior, some people get upset and think the animal is "messed up" or is a "bad dog." They do not work through the behavior and do not teach the dog the desirable behavior or get it treated homeopathically for vaccinosis issues (such as excessive fear and aggression), and then chain it in the backyard or dump it at a shelter.

Dogs are not carnivores. They're omnivores. Cats are carnivores.

originally posted by: Lilroanie
Yes it is recent human fault Pit Bulls are now aggressive.

Created in the UK

A dog (Olde English Bulldog) that looked much like today's pit bull was originally used in the 1800's in the British Isles to 'bait' bulls. These matches were held for the entertainment of the struggling classes; a source of relief from the tedium of hardship. In 1835 bull baiting was deemed inhumane and became illegal, and dog fighting became a popular replacement. Soon, a new bulldog was created by crossing the Olde English Bulldog with terriers to create smaller, more agile dogs. The best fighters were celebrated and held up as heroes for their courage and fortitude during battle. At the same time, bite inhibition towards humans was encouraged through selective breeding so gamblers could handle their dogs during staged fights. Partially because of these early breeding efforts which frowned on "man biters," pit bulls gained a reputation for their trustworthy nature with humans.
Source

Some pit bulls were selected and bred for their fighting ability. That means that they may be more likely than other breeds to fight with dogs. It doesn’t mean that they can’t be around other dogs or that they’re unpredictably aggressive. Other pit bulls were specifically bred for work and companionship. These dogs have long been popular family pets, noted for their gentleness, affection and loyalty. And even those pit bulls bred to fight other animals were not prone to aggressiveness toward people. Dogs used for fighting needed to be routinely handled by people; therefore aggression toward people was not tolerated. Any dog that behaved aggressively toward a person was culled, or killed, to avoid passing on such an undesirable trait. Research on pet dogs confirms that dog aggressive dogs are no more likely to direct aggression toward people than dogs that aren’t aggressive to other dogs.

ASPCA

Drug dealers and ignorant idiots took a breed that was specifically bred to never bite a human and started breeding the odd bad tempered dog (instead of culling them as they did in the beginning) to more odd balls that are inherently aggressive so they can guard the all important drugs etc., and boom you have a powerful dog bred to "bait" bulls now human aggressive perpetrated by humans, not the breed.

There are still plenty of Pits out there that are much sweeter than the average little dog, just stay away from backyard breeders who have their dogs on 20 pound chains in the yard.

As for the biting spaniel mentioned earlier google "spaniel rage'


Lil

ETA Parts in bold mine

It's the chain (and abuse) that makes the dog aggressive. Like us, dogs only have two responses to threat: flight or fight. When they're chained, they respond to threat by attacking because they can't flee. The approach of a human means they're going to be abused. They generalize the approach of humans and the fight response to all occasions.

We will have to agree to disagree, BH. This breed is a dangerous unpredictable breed, imo. I just had a conversation with a law enforcement friend about this issue, and he said that when they get a call about a dog attack, about 75% of the time, a pit bull is involved. I personally think that most people that insist on owning this breed are either thug-wanabes or gentle loving kind-hearted people that can't stand to see pits "discriminated" against and therefore adopt them to give them a loving home. That's good.

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic

originally posted by: ItCameFromOuterSpace
a reply to: chuck258

All pit bull owners should have to register their dogs as dangerous and be ridiculed by society. Pit bulls shouldn't even be allowed within city limits. There's no need to have these kinds of animals.

Bull#. It has to do with the owners. Pitbulls used to be called the "Nanny Dog." What does that tell you? That these dogs used to be held really highly. But people have changed. These dogs are the most looked out for when people want to dog fight, over breed, and have bait dogs. Tell me what kind of person does that? Surely dogs do not ask for that.

Don't pull that 'Dangerous and ridiculed by society' crap. moderndogmagazine.com... The majority of Michael Vicks pitbulls were turned into therapy dogs, or were adopted by families with children. And they were fighting dogs, and used as bait.

It isn't fair that this happened, but don't you dare blame the animal.

I once had a rescued pitbull and a 20 lb terrier mix. The 20 lb terrier mix used to lie in the center of the bed and the pitbull would walk up to the bed, reach out and kiss her. She, the 20 lb terrier, would respond by jumping on his head and biting him. The 70 lb pitbull's response was to walk around the room shaking his head and making an "ooooh" sound as if to say, "Ooooh, I don't know why she did that. Oooooh, poor me." A friend had a 10 lb dog and my pitbull used to play tug of war with him and let the little dog believe it was an even match.

originally posted by: queenofswords
We will have to agree to disagree, BH. This breed is a dangerous unpredictable breed, imo. I just had a conversation with a law enforcement friend about this issue, and he said that when they get a call about a dog attack, about 75% of the time, a pit bull is involved. I personally think that most people that insist on owning this breed are either thug-wanabes or gentle loving kind-hearted people that can't stand to see pits "discriminated" against and therefore adopt them to give them a loving home. That's good.

I don't know where you live but that suggests that almost everyone has a pitbull or the cop is ignorant.

originally posted by: Tangerine
Dogs are not carnivores. They're omnivores. Cats are carnivores.

Cats are obligate carnivores. Dogs can digest other foods, but they are carnivores.

Canidae: coyotes, dogs, foxes, jackals, and wolves
...
Class: mammals
Subclass: Therian mammals
Infraclass: Eutheriaplacental mammals
Order: carnivores

Source

a reply to: queenofswords

I didn't want anything to do with a Pitbull, until two years ago. I had the same mentality that you do, they were dangerous, unpredictable, and scary.

Two years ago I got a Pitbull puppy at a truck stop to put on the truck with us. I don't like dogs to begin with, and was nervous as hell about a Pitty beyond that. This dog is the most stubborn, bullheaded, smartest, most loving dog I've ever seen. He gets so excited when someone comes up to the truck and talks to him that he occasionally pees on the floor while standing up in the window to meet them. If we put a regular collar on him, and he sees a person in the parking lot, he'll choke himself to the point of unconsciousness and flop over twitching unless I let him go say hi to them.

When he sees other dogs, he tries to throw his weight around and usually ends up getting pushed around for his trouble. He's a giant goofball, who scares me with how intelligent he can be at times, and how well he understands what we tell him.

originally posted by: queenofswords
We will have to agree to disagree, BH.

I know... I don't mind disagreeing, but I think getting the information out there is a good thing. I don't mind if you think that pitbulls are dangerous and unpredictable. I really have no dog in the fight, so to speak, as I've never had one and they don't appeal to me. My only interest is that I do have GSDs and they get the same kind of prejudice that pitbulls do, to a lesser degree.

Many people will identify a dog as a "pitbull" when they have no clue what it is. That just adds to their negative reputation. Many times when someone reports a pitbull attack, it's another breed altogether.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Tangerine
Dogs are not carnivores. They're omnivores. Cats are carnivores.

Cats are obligate carnivores. Dogs can digest other foods, but they are carnivores.

Canidae: coyotes, dogs, foxes, jackals, and wolves
...
Class: mammals
Subclass: Therian mammals
Infraclass: Eutheriaplacental mammals
Order: carnivores

Source

According to every veterinarian I've ever known (and I've known many), dogs are omnivores and need food other than meat to be healthy. Wild canines consume vegetation (often in the stomach of kills) but also directly in addition to meat. I'm just going by what I've been told--but by many qualified people.