Evolution a Religion

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Thanks for the link, I'll have to read a bit more than I did at first glance when I have some time. Maybe there are some insights as to how one can break through the creationist's shell in there. I know most of my questions to them may go unanswered, or answered near enough to how I expected them to be. Regardless I always hold out hope I've helped plant some seeds (questions) in their minds that may someday bloom. It really may be a matter of hearing the right bit of info or asking that one question that flips the switch in the mind.

As for that Adnan Oktar. I don't really have much to comment on about him. Seems like an interesting guy. I didn't read too much of the wiki though.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Can you name some of the scientists that are running things.

Ahhhh..ok... Now this initially looks like a good and intelligent interrogatory. But is it??

Followed by this...

but here in the US we have a bunch of politicians that have backgrounds in law not science which have been running things.

Now while this may be true...remember who these lawyers and politicians hire to do their psychological work for them...in winning votes. Advertisers ...psychology people. The same bunch who sell us products and other merchandise.

Also legions of pollsters. Politics and lawyers have become quite scientific.

Science from Scientia Latin..Knowledge..

Or from Greek...Gnosis..Knowledge

And by the way...if I recall correctly..the Psyche...in Psychology...is from the Greek word meaning Soul. Catching on yet?? Religion!!??

Not all is what it seems on the surface.

I am not so sure science in a rigged system would make any changes. I say this because even with science in a rigged system ..the scientists running things would have to be under a dual oath system...a public oath..and in private ..a private oath to whom knows what.

This private oath is in total contradiction to their public oath.

This is a concept and understanding which will never be taught in a public school for what it is.

The key here is understanding what is not generally taught to people.

For I know educated people ,PHDs, who have gone out an taught this line of thinking to people and they were put in jail and gone after by the system for teaching people what was not in public education. Teaching how the system is rigged...and for what to look ..what to see. Teaching what someone does not want us to know.

This also appears to have happened to people who have invented things someone does not want marketed. To big a threat to established businesses and leadership in a rigged system.

If you and others know of what I speak...than you are correct...true scientists of moral fiber..are not running things...which puts science in the hands of people looking for power and control....making science ...a manner of control...not for the people per se...but for someone wishing not to be seen or known by most of the people they intend to control.

This too makes science not the product advertised....by association.

While I am thinking about it...

Years ago..I took a woman to Las Vegas to have a look see.
Now I am not into gambling ..having taken serious risks.for my monies...but she likes all the bright lights and appearances.

But I did notice a pattern while there..it is all appearances..fluff...like a grown up Disneyland. Very much like most of politics..appearances.

There were bright lights and bling...glitter and glitz...particularly I noticed this in the lobby where all the slot machines were positioned.

The lights, glitter/glitz...flash ..reminded me of going down the detergent aisle in the grocery store...all the bright colours screaming out..."Take me...choose me!!" This where legions of psychologists/advertisers worked to package a product.

It was the same thing with these slot machines to get your monies...Oops..I mean your vote.

Are you getting the point here???


Do we know of a current group of politicians..where people are rapidly catching on that they are not the product advertised?? Whats more..the opposite political party is not telling how this is done to a people.....they are mostly silent on this ?? Yes???!!!

This tells me that both parties are not the product advertised and may in fact be connected somewhere in the background where no one wants us to look.

Thus a Rigged system...in spite of science and all it's lofty slogans and selling points.

And both political parties..use and misuse the media...scientifically ..to keep people on the string ..emotionally to get them to the voting booth.

Particularly in the last 100 years.

Now..what do you want to tell me about science???

Thanks to all for their posts,

Orangetom

Wow!! I went back to page 1 and started looking through many of these posts.

By page 11 I was about looked out.

Here is the problem I have with big bangs..little bangs...partial bangs or whatever bangs upon which you want to speculate.

No matter what one wants to theorize...a theory is only a theory unless someone creates a universe of their own...whether in or through a laboratory or however. Where is the universe created by science...to prove out the big bang..little bang ..partial bang...or whatever bang you want to prove.

Theorizing is not proof. No reputable scientist...says it is so without the actual repeatable proof that this is how the universe is created..they must needs duplicate it. Not in a laboratory..but in this universe..to show that science can duplicate it.

Understand now...other than that you have a religious belief here. Someone else in another post alluded to the combining of religion and science in the form of alchemy. I agree with them.

As someone working in the nuclear field...I am not against science. As I stated science has made a plethora of better products for us..from food to homes...to cars to clothes to this computer...

But this stuff about big bangs..little bangs...whatever bangs you want..does not make good nonsense unless it can be duplicated to scale...not in a laboratory...but full scale...duplication. Where is the universe created by men??

That would be science. For science requires consistent controllable duplication in proof. Is it happening out here in nature and can it be duplicated?? Over and over and over.

Come on people..think..do not emote.

Orangetom

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: BlackManINC
I detective BlackManINC, suspect Yahweh as the likely culprit for the origin of life as the evidence of his finger print is in the things that are made, the information that cannot be brought into being by any purely natural process.

May I ask some honest questions? Just looking for honest answers.

Are you certain the "finger prints" you see as evidence of design belong to Yahweh and not any of the numerous other creator Gods or Goddesses from various cultures throughout various times in history?

What evidence do you see that suggests to you it was Yahweh's hand in the creation of all things?

What evidence do you have against it being any of the other deities?

I went over this already in a thread on the origins and creation board. Yes I am absolutely certain that Yawheh can be the only deity responsible for life because there is no other supernatural creator God but Yahweh. All other gods are claimed to be manifestations of nature, where nature and god are one and the same. As a naturalistic explanation hasn't been proven by science, that makes Yahweh, being the only deity who is above and entirely distinct from nature, the most likely cause. As far as these other so called "gods" are concerned, the Bible is the only book on earth that tells us who and what they really are. The Bible tells us they are devils and fallen angels disguising themselves as forces of nature. Once you understand this simple observation, then you'll see how Bible prophecy will play out as time goes along.

a reply to: BlackManINC

Yahweh or Allah ?
Isn't that the same ?
How about Jesus or Muhammad then ?

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: BlackManINC

Yahweh or Allah ?
Isn't that the same ?
How about Jesus or Muhammad then ?

It is claimed that Yahweh and Allah is one and the same, and I think you know the arguments brought forth about that issue already so I won't waste my time. Now why are you following me around the website like my little poodle with this Adnan Oktar guy? Why is he important to you? Adnan Oktar calls the mere idea of intelligent design a deception of Satan. So I guess this is the reason why you keep bringing up this wolf in sheep's clothing, because you both have a lot in common.

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: BlackManINC

Yahweh or Allah ?
Isn't that the same ?
How about Jesus or Muhammad then ?

Now that is intellectual...scientific..and textbook of todays rational logical reasonable men. Bravo!!1

Only public schooling ...meaning a television and movie education can come up with this kind of thing.

Orangetom

a reply to: BlackManINC

Your logic goes :

Creationism => Bible => Baby Jesus

I'm trying to let you realise that for the same price you could end up with :

Creationism => Koran => Muhammad

Why Jesus rather than Muhammad on sole creationist arguments ?
Should I agree with creationism why should I end up with Jesus rather the other guy ?
And we both know they happen to be related to the same parent company ...

a reply to: orangetom1999


We tried science before with theses guys, check here.

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: BlackManINC

Your logic goes :

Creationism => Bible => Baby Jesus

I'm trying to let you realise that for the same price you could end up with :

Creationism => Koran => Muhammad

Why Jesus rather than Muhammad on sole creationist arguments ?
Should I agree with creationism why should I end up with Jesus rather the other guy ?
And we both know they happen to be related to the same parent company ...

Which one came first, the Bible or the Koran? Enough said there

a reply to: BlackManINC

The Torah.
Did you ever heard of any such thing as a Hebraic creationist ?

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: BlackManINC

The Torah.
Did you ever heard of any such thing as a Hebraic creationist ?

HAHA, so after I rebutted your apparent belief in the Koran somehow having authority over the Bible with a simple historical observation, now you are moving the goal posts to the Jews. The Torah is the first five books of the old testament, so I don't know what point you are trying to make.

a reply to: BlackManINC

That you will never any find jewish individual shouting the BS you're being served.
Why ?
Because that's their BS and that's what they want you to swallow.
Who are the 'choosen people' who massively do not endorse the universal values of the Christ ?

I tried to let you understand, honestly, ... But you had to read between the lines (mostly in the other thread). And that's somehow impossible for someone who can only understand things literally.
You still want to consider your 6000 years calendar ?
Try to figure out what's going in our world, today, with this thread.

originally posted by: BlackManINC
All other gods are claimed to be manifestations of nature, where nature and god are one and the same.

This is incorrect. Though there are many deities that are one and the same with nature, that is not true of all of them.

As far as these other so called "gods" are concerned, the Bible is the only book on earth that tells us who and what they really are. The Bible tells us they are devils and fallen angels disguising themselves as forces of nature. Once you understand this simple observation, then you'll see how Bible prophecy will play out as time goes along.

What about the deities that were worshiped before Yahweh?

Where does the Bible say there are devils and angels disguising themselves as forces of nature?

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: BlackManINC

That you will never any find jewish individual shouting the BS you're being served.
Why ?
Because that's their BS and that's what they want you to swallow.
Who are the 'choosen people' who massively do not endorse the universal values of the Christ ?

I tried to let you understand, honestly, ... But you had to read between the lines (mostly in the other thread). And that's somehow impossible for someone who can only understand things literally.
You still want to consider your 6000 years calendar ?
Try to figure out what's going in our world, today, with this thread.

In other words you have no actual argument, thanks for non-issue you brought up

a reply to: BlackManINC
As if you had any for creationism ...

Now it's official guy, you have no more opportunity to claim you haven't been warned should be deceived soon.

originally posted by: BlackManINC
In other words you have no actual argument, thanks for non-issue you brought up

Only the ones you dare to consider.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeerThis is incorrect. Though there are many deities that are one and the same with nature, that is not true of all of them.

The only other "god" that has any similarity at all to Yahweh is the Tao. Its only similarity to Yahweh is that it existed before the creation of the heavens and the earth. The similarities end there as even the Tao is extended into nature to such an extent that there is no distinction at all between the two.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

What about the deities that were worshiped before Yahweh?

Where does the Bible say there are devils and angels disguising themselves as forces of nature?

I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.

16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?

20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he? - 1 Corinthians 10

One of the most referenced devils in disguise they sacrificed to was Baal, the god which some who are intellectually dishonest have claimed is another name for Yahweh when Baal was nothing more than a fertility god. I'll give you another example, a fallen angel disguising itself as a "god" of nature. In Hinduism, you have this character referred to as Shiva, the coming destroyer of all. We know who this Shiva character really is by his sub title alone. Apollyon, the beast of revelation who rises out of the put is also referred to as "the destroyer". So as I have pointed out before, Shiva's true identity is Apollyon.

Edit: And this is the main reason why I believe the Hindus will be one of the first on their knees worshiping Apollyon because of who he will claim to be.

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: orangetom1999

We tried science before with theses guys, check here.

I am not an Ishmaelite.


Oh..by the way...

For those of us trained in Occult patterns..This is very very interesting...for it is of the Occult and tries to pass itself off as holy ...It is not Holy. There is a difference.

Here..

Who are the 'choosen people' who massively do not endorse the universal values of the Christ ?

There are two unique watchwords here in this quote which raise a warning flag to those trained in Occult Studies. These words are warning flags and immediately caused my radar to perk up and take notice..become more intense.

The first one is the use of the words or expression of "the Christ." This is an expression never used in Bible format. But it is found in Occult studies along with New Age expressions. The second watch word or flag..is the expression "Universal." This too is a warning flag that a substitution is being attempted.

The Bible is not Universal. It is written to a specific people..both in the New Testament and in the Olde Testament. Thinking people know this and particularly a thinking people with some historical background.

There is a specific instruction for the people of God to separate from the world...and the world's ways. Not to be universal.

Universal is a expression used to catch people off guard ..people who do not know the pattern of the world and the pattern of God and His instructions to His people. His people are instructed to not be as the world or nations around them were doing. Not to be universal..but to be after Him.

Hence when I see the word..."The Christ"...I know it is covering up for " the christ" But it must appear to be Christ in capital letters. It is a counterfit. And one thing..occult studies teach to the student is counterfeits..not only in religions..but also the religion of politics and the world. Universal is another word telling of a counterfeit. For the Bible or Word is not universal.

All one has to do is to learn to think outside the box of what passes for thinking today. Even among Christians..for they too can be incredibly dumb..even about Bible and History and many of their ministers keep them this dumb. It ought not to be so but it is indeed..with many Christians.

Today's thinking is often default settings to play through unquestioned and unchallenged...unthinking. Emotions verses thinking...just watch what is happening in Ferguson. Scientific...Ordo Ob Chao. Order from Chaos.

To know how to do this ..you have to be able to think in something other than Ishmael.

Hope this helps some of you..

Orangetom

After Isaac and his seed.

a reply to: IndependentAgent

The only scientific "proof" we have that the universe began, is that it exists, and the Singelarity.

Now we can create lots of theories around that, everyone based on the saam "facts", but why is the Big Bang the prefered one?

Sophistry will get you nowhere.

We know a lot more about the universe than 'it exists', and the singularity you mention may not have been a singularity at all.

The title "Big Bang Theory" is merely an evocative NAME given to the EXPLANATION for the idea that the universe was once much smaller than it is today and had a very fast EXPANSION.

The reason that the idea that "the universe started out very small and expanded rapidly" is the 'preferred' explanation for OBSERVED facts about the universe as we know it today is that it explains more of those observed facts better than any other proposed explanation and it has made predictions about the universe that we would not have suspected.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Why Jesus rather than Muhammad on sole creationist arguments ?
Should I agree with creationism why should I end up with Jesus rather the other guy ?
And we both know they happen to be related to the same parent company ...

Come on theultimatebelgianjoke,

You are betting here that no one out on this board can think outside the box...but will default to ignorance and just plain not knowing.

There is no such instruction to Christians to spread the Word by the Sword...or burning at the stake.
This means that they do not have the same parent company.

Amazingly ..many Christians do not know this..their ministers keep them so ignorant...and do not discuss it. Thus they take the Salt out of them and replace it with sugar...or Universality.

Once again all you have to do is think outside the box of most of what passes for education today...a television and movie education in emotions.

Orangetom