And this is where entitlement attitudes begin...

I just wanted to add as a follow up to my last post.

I think, looking back - the idea that my dad would think I was a coward worried me more than being bullied or getting into a fight.

I too was interested very much in boxing and martial arts from an early age. I still practise boxing now and train, for health and fitness aswell as self-protection should the need arise.

But in reality my mouth probably won me more fights than my fists ever did.

When I was about 18-19 or so I was out with some friends in Edinburgh. We were outside a shop, my friend was inside buying cigarettes and I was standing with my other mate waiting, two lads approached us and started asking us questions, where we were from and where we were going, trying to be intimidating. You get to know the signals and know when a situation is about to become live...i pre-empted it by calling them out, skip the bullspit.

I asked them straight out...you're trying to start a fight here, aren't you...the chap responded with a resounding yes.

I laughed at him...I took control of the conversation and the tables turned immediately, it was palpable. Their attitudes changed completely and before you know it they're being more friendly...I asked why they wanted to start a fight with complete strangers...his answer - I don't know.

Stupidity, I suppose...there have been other such occasions where I've played the sort of joker, acgted confident and it worked quite well.

Other times it failed, I resorted to fisticuffs...someone could grab me by the throat and pound their fist into my face, if they don't knock me down or out quick I'll stick my thumb in their eye...if someone's hitting you then they're pretty much gonna do so whether you hit back or not, to me it's a no-brainer that you hit back.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
Everybody has a right to live in a bully free environment without being attacked by predatory lower humans (wolves in sheep skin). Remove the wolves from the group and the group dynamic becomes different. Treat the wolf and see if it can become a productive member of society.

To those who say a single person should stand up to bullies (a group dynamic where you are alone against the majority) have you yourself been the single one where against 60% of the group that are mindless followers of the predatory alpha wolfs and the other 30% are just trying to keep out of the way and not become the target of the insane group dynamic.

Standing up to one bully who have no support is easy. Standing up to a group that controls the majority thru fear that support each other over several age groups is harder. Walk in their shoes before calling this an entitlement attitude.

I walked in those shoes. I knew them all too well. Yet I don't want to be a "victim" or a complainer. What do you think about that? Don't think for a moment I wasn't in those shoes.

Here's what I think. There're a couple boys (or girls) who're the initial bullies. They have a mental disorder or some sort of psychological need not being met. Then there's the victim of the bullies. Usually dorky or withdrawn. They hang out with others like themselves. They too have a mental disorder or some psychological hangup. And so the bully and the bullied are each in a psychological prison.

The rest of the kids who join the initial bullies are doing it because of peer pressure. They wouldn't be bullying otherwise. The people who don't get involved can do so because the peer pressure is less for them.

That's what I think. My problem in school wasn't that I didn't know how to punch or disable someone quickly. My problem was social. I couldn't blend in. I couldn't make the crucial social connections you need. I probably did have some kind of mental disorder, and still do. I know I read a study recently which showed bullies and the bullied tend to have problems in later life. The bullied tend to be something like six times more likely to have mental disorders. The bullies don't suffer as much but they don't fair well either.

I have the article where I got this information. I went online and googled it and found this below. It looks very similar to what I have:
www.psy chologicalscience.org - Far From Being Harmless, the Effects of Bullying Last Long Into Adulthood...

.........
The ‘bully-victims’ were at greatest risk for health problems in adulthood, over six times more likely to be diagnosed with a serious illness, smoke regularly, or develop a psychiatric disorder compared to those not involved in bullying.

The results show that bully-victims are perhaps the most vulnerable group of all. This group may turn to bullying after being bullied themselves as they may lack the emotional regulation or support required to cope with it.

“In the case of bully-victims, it shows how bullying can spread when left untreated,” Wolke added. “Some interventions are already available in schools but new tools are needed to help health professionals to identify, monitor, and deal with the ill-effects of bullying. The challenge we face now is committing the time and resources to these interventions to try and put an end to bullying.”

All the groups were more than twice as likely to have difficulty in keeping a job, or committing to saving compared to those not involved in bullying. As such, they displayed a higher propensity for being impoverished in young adulthood.
............
The research assessed 1,420 participants four to six times between the ages of 9 and 16 years and adult outcomes between 24-26 years of age.

a reply to: jonnywhite

That's another interesting angle to take.

Should we be looking at each situation through this lens?

Covered already, sort of, but there are a few different ways to fight bullying other than the physical. Not that I'm opposed to the physical if all else fails

And onequestion raises a most excellent point. The bullying is everywhere, so the lessons learned early will serve you all your life. I've have to stand up to more than one bully in the corporate world (both peer and to management). Not pleasant and not easy to address.

I do think schools and HR organizations and witnesses have an obligation. We all do.

So...as a victim of bullying myself, and now someone who treats kids who are bullied ((not exclusively mind you)) I have a few points I suppose

I was bullied from 5th to 9th grade (Jr High to Freshman) and literally only once was the bullying physical. The rest of the time it was mental and emotional. I am not trying to say the same for all of you, but a year into the abuse I would literally PRAY to just get my butt kicked...just punch me in the stomach so I could go home and heal. I would have taken that every day instead of the insidious emotional abuse and mental toll I took. Trust me...I am NOT SAYING physical abuse is better or worse. I am NOT minimizing those who were beat up...it's all terrible...absolutely awful

But that emotional stuff was was drove me to try and end it

But here's something I learned in all that time

I was enrolled in Karate and enjoyed it. I did learn some self confidence and I only ever fought back once and it did nothing to stop the emotional abuse. It only worsened it. Again, I am not saying this is always the case but we need to look at the act of bullying in three lights we often forget

1. Bullying can be mental and emotional and in many cases that can leave a much worse toll on someone

2. A physical scar can and often does heal but the emotional ones may not without help

3. We live in a new age where computers make it possible to continue your torture non stop and with incredible efficiency and widespread area

It is number 3 that makes me sad for this generation...sorry...I am serious


Being bullied at school is awful...simply awful and even when you are home the after effects are there

Now imagine that every time you turn around, even at home, it continues to follow and torture you.

Amanda Todd

Yes she made some mistakes but that girl is a perfect example of the sickening and deadly three pronged attack that one of my teenagers goes through

1. She makes a mistake (or hell something perceived as a mistake) and is bullied virtually and personally

2. She makes attempts to go into hiding but even when the computer is switched off, she knows full well that all over the net (or at least wide enough to infect her social circle) there is the sickness waiting...the anger and hate for her

3. Then when the community, family or school DOES fight back..she gets bashed AGAIN for trying to stand up for herself "she brought this on herself"

So a teenage girl was conned into exposing herself ((which she shouldn't have done...but I am not going into why I am not blaming her right now)) THEN is tortured because she tried to stand up for herself

and then suddenly we are all surprised she killed herself?

Because here is the kicker...she made an unsuccessful attempt to kill herself, and all the edgy, pathetic little boys and girls came out and pushed her "DO IT FOR REAL!!! KILL YOURSELF!!!"

and then she did...and they STILL persist...bring up Amanda Todd and people will still talk about how she is a S*** and deserved to die

And you want to know why fighting back doesn't do a thing???

Yeah...I'll take an asswhooping any day thanks

but even if you get past all of this...all of it

then here is my final point

Why are we so concerned about the kid fighting back? I agree any child should learn confidence in the face of adversity as it is absolutely an important lesson and I support that

But we really need social support and we need it darn quick for survivor AND bully alike...yeah that's right...these little "cretins" and "psychopaths" have serious problems and we just sort of go "well ok...little Johnny finally beat the snot out of him...all good"

I am not saying what the bully did was right...not by a long shot. I believe in just and fair consequence...but what then? Where is the progress?

We've lived through tough days when survivors learned to fight back..and yet here it is...still prevelant